Now Online! [Archive] - UK Business Forums

Cornish Steve

16th July 2005, 16:29

white text on most dark back backgrounds makes my eyes feel funny

This is true for business presentations too. In an attempt to be creative, it's easy to distract the audience. Every graphic, animation, or visual effect on a slide (or in this case, a website) must reinforce the main message. If in doubt, keep things simple.

Steve
www.goldctr.com

"Excellence in communication!"

Rob Holmes

16th July 2005, 18:18

Finstar,

Is this a business site? For Commercial Finance? Sorry but my personal opinion is it totally lacks credibility.

Why on earth is it just a sub-domain of spoofed.co.uk ? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you're trying to sell commercial finance off the back of a domain that basically insinuates it's a spoof?

I really believe you need to spend a couple of hundred quid getting a website facelift - by someone else. I'm sure one of the web design people here could do something for you.

Rob

DuaneJackson

16th July 2005, 18:38

I absolutely agree with all of the above. You have some good content there and if this is your own attempt at making a website and you are not a web designer then it's an admirable effort - I've seen a hell of a lot worse. I don't think you've used the blink tag anywhere yet : )

But if you are hoping to get any business from your site then you need to have it redesigned professionally. The cost will be well worth it. And the extra few quid for your own domain name is something you MUST do.

Some website you can look at and say "well, that wont get them any business", but to be brutally honest - your's could lose you business. if I were a potential client and I saw that I'd run a million miles.

Please don't be disheartened by all these comments though. As I said, it IS an admirable effort for a non professional and you've managed to put togther some good content and you have an idea of how you want your site structured. You and your chosen designer can use this as a starting point for a new site.

If money is really tight then consider buying a template for a few dollars from somewhere like www.templatepark.com and work with that, but bear in mind all the comments made by others here - bottom line being to keep it simple and proessional looking.

Doctor-Webby

16th July 2005, 20:31

Cornish Steve

16th July 2005, 21:56

Finstar I can build you a nice attractive site to you requirements for a cost effective price

Take a quick look at Doctor-Webby's home page and compare it with your own. I think you'll benefit from his creativity.

I'm willing to walk through your site once it has been improved and provide detailed feedback on the quality of the writing. I'm sure that others here are prepared to do the same.

epiphany

16th July 2005, 22:09

To be honest I think the site just needs:

New easier to read font

Some images and headings to break up the main frame text so its not just big blocks.

Change the background blue or the white text in which ever way you please just make it more readable.

Do those things and you will really help people use you site.

Doctor-Webby

16th July 2005, 22:48

What about me and Epiphany having a bidding war that would be quality!

epiphany

16th July 2005, 22:51

I am working on 7 different sites at the moment, I need a break :P

Kemble3

17th July 2005, 12:10

And please finstar, drop the pop-ups. makes you look so unprofessional. Take the advice of the people here, a new powerfull web site and a re-model of your company's image should work wonders for you.

Best of luck

finstar

19th July 2005, 08:37

Firstly, thanks for all the replies, your feedback has been noted, and some parts of it are being acted on now with regards to the site.

If anyone wishes to do business with me in this regard, then please drop me a line with your details either by mail or e-mail, I will not do business with anyone simply on the back of a forum.

With regards to Matrixx's comment on whether we are trying to "sell commercial finance on the back of a domain, etc......", this website was never, and will never be a selling tool in its own right. Believe me our clients take us perfectly seriously when you consider that we have provided, and can provide, financial solutions for businesses and consumers who think they have exhausted their options.

On a final note, once again thanks for the feedback, it is appreciated and is being acted upon, and for any web developer who wishes to help out, please drop me a line with a bit more information, money is no object in this matter as for the right site, we have a financial package that we offer our clients where basically web site finance is secured on the site and software used to build it, making the whole package a lot cheaper and tax effiecient, so I dare say that we could use this same package to our own ends. We would have to spend a fair bit of money though to make it all worth while.

webit

19th July 2005, 09:27

To be honest, when I saw your site I thought the DNS had been hijacked!

You need some major work done and fast. Any new clients will be chceking your site out to validate you as a business, one look and I left.

BTW I'm not a web designer and get rid of the 'spoofed' url !!!

Rob Holmes

19th July 2005, 09:34

this website was never, and will never be a selling tool in its own right. Believe me our clients take us perfectly seriously when you consider that we have provided, and can provide, financial solutions for businesses and consumers who think they have exhausted their options.

Sure, I hear you <smile> but people still look at websites to check a companies credibility and I was concerned that the 'spoofed' in the url would lose you business and we're here to help each others business grow as much as we can!

One day when I've got the courage I'll ask for a critique from people on our site - but not yet :)

Rob

finstar

19th July 2005, 11:08

Like I said before, thanks for the feedback.

I understand what you are saying about the spoofed url, there is a long story behind how we got that (not a good one I might add). I dare say we were just being a bit lazy not dropping it earlier. Point taken.

So far though, we have had a number of enquiries from people who have actually liked the site and how it is set up, so all that I do agree with the points that are being made, there are still a number of clients who have approached us since the launch of the site who like what they see (To quote, a couple found it refreshing). The new site currently being constructed certainly is a lot easier on the eye, but other than the written content it would be useful if people could help me extract the positives from the site as it stands so they are not lost in the transition, thus risking the customers we have already picked up. For instance is the site as easy to navigate as we hoped, and such related questions.

We're not going to rush into anything with the relaunch, because the risk of putting up something that alienates the clients we've just picked up, and new clients is too great, but like I say, keep the feedback coming so that we can keep adapting, and hopefully we'll get something that appeals to all!

finstar

19th July 2005, 11:09

Oh, and before I forget, domain names+hosting, any pointers in the right direction as to who to pick them up from would be appreciated!

Rob Holmes

19th July 2005, 11:15

Oh, and before I forget, domain names+hosting, any pointers in the right direction as to who to pick them up from would be appreciated!

That wasn't the reason I pulled up the 'spoofed' issue by the way but...

Theres a link in my signature for domains and hosting - we've got a new pricing structure for hosting going live in a couple of days which means you *may* be able to get the hosting cheaper depending on your needs.

Rob

finstar

3rd August 2005, 09:06

Just a quick post to let you all know I've taken the advice given here, purchased a new domain name, and currently have the new site under construction as we speak.

Watch this space for updates!

finstar

14th August 2005, 23:33

Ok folks, thats it up and running. New domain, brand new look, and the e-mails from web developers have stopped.

I'll take that as a positive.

SillyJokes

15th August 2005, 07:44

Now you need to talk to the copywriters here.

This whole block of text is obviously seach engine fodder but not one word of it is of any interest to your visitors - it is a big turn off to have to read through waffle like this and will turn people away.

No one will email you about your new look, they just aren't interested - just give them what they came for in short snappy sentences.

Remember, it is hard to read on the web and writing for the web is a skill which is not too hard to learn.

Hello everyone and thank you for coming to the FinstarOnline homepage!

Firstly we welcome anyone who visited and used finstaronline.com in its previous form, why not drop us a e-mail with your thoughts on the new format? Secondly we of course welcome all of you who are new to the finstaronline.com web experience. As this is the homepage to our portal, I will try to explain everything that can be found within.

On the Finstar Group page, you will find everything that you need to know about what is going on in the Finstar Group on a broad level. If something happens that affects the whole group, you can be sure to find it here.

The Finstar Marketing page is just that, a page that lets you know everything about Finstar Marketing! Here you will find out everything about the arm of Finstar which generates leads for both Finstar Group interests, and also provides marketing services for a wide spectrum of other businesses.

You are close to your business and already know the benefits your company offers but I don't know who Finstar are, what they can do for me and after ploughing through this I am no closer to the answer.

This kind of writing reinforces the impression that you have not invested any money in this business, therefore, why would I?

annethedonn

15th August 2005, 08:16

Ah poor Finstar, I bet he's feeling a bit bullied this morning.... give the guy a break!

SillyJokes

15th August 2005, 09:19

You are right, Anne, I am a bit grumpy today - kid broke her arm, I chipped two teeth, email spam is mountainous.

However I still stand by what I said. The copy on this site needs tightening up, and it's not alone. Waffly home pages are dreadful and the sooner people wake up to the fact that they are turn off for customers the sooner they will start making more money from their sites.

I might be grumpy but at least I'm telling the reason why. Customers will just click away from boredom and never return.

Can you imagine a magazine publishing waffle like this? - it simply doesn't happen because they know the writing needs to be immediately relevant to the readers or they stop reading.

annethedonn

15th August 2005, 09:23

Hi, I wasn't getting at you Silly Jokes (sorry don't know your name) - I was aiming it at all the messages he's been bombarded with. Sorry if it came across that way I was just feeling sorry for him!

Sorry to hear about your little 'un and your teeth! Ouch!

I didn't say I didn't agree....

MinuWeb

15th August 2005, 10:04

I hope the kid didn't break her arm on your teeth !!

Cornish Steve

15th August 2005, 13:59

Waffly home pages are dreadful and the sooner people wake up to the fact that they are turn off for customers the sooner they will start making more money from their sites.

You are absolutely right about this. Even some major corporations have home pages that are full of abstract drivel. Their phrases look like they were generated by some type of machine, and it's not even clear what industry they are in.

Finstar, you solved other problems that forum members pointed out, so that's progress. I'm sure that several people here would be quite willing to help with the text at your site (and I've sent you a PM). Good luck.

finstar

15th August 2005, 20:57

As a matter of fact,

1:- Text was not written to boost search engine rankings.

2:- Having no problems with either return visitors, or leads coming in/ money being made

3:- E-mails have came in about the new look

You are entitled to your opinion, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I guess you won't be a customer in the future, but then again, nothing on your site quite grabs me either, but hey thats life.

Finstar Online's opening page is a portal, somewhere where our clients can come on and do pretty much what they would do on their ISP's homepage. The homepage has only been up for a matter of days, and yet has already paid for itself many times over, this on top of our other successful business lines means that we are going from strength to strength, as we always have done.

But then again, as I have said on many an occasion, you know what they say about opinions.

DuaneJackson

15th August 2005, 21:18

Calm down dears! It's only a website.

Finstar, I don't think SillyJokes was meaning to be offensive towards you or to get your back up. What he said was just his opinion on how you could improve the site.

I don't doubt what you say about business coming in is true, but all of us can all improve our businesses further.

The great thing about this site is that you can get impartial and constructive advice from others that *do* know what they're talking about at the very least as potential customers.

Maybe his comments could have been given with more tact but a) we are all short on time b) he's having a bad day by anyones standards and c) we should all be thick skinned enough to take onboard advice we think is useful and ignore that which we don't.

Can't we all just get along? : )

(BTW, I think your site is a thousand times better than it was originally, the only thing I didn't like within 5 seconds was the centered text, personally I'd left-align it)

finstar

15th August 2005, 21:29

Fair enough.

But believe me, when it comes to bad days, I have just had the MOTHER of all bad days and am like a bear with a headache at the moment.

Does it show?

directmarketingadvice

15th August 2005, 22:50

I'd agree with Silly Jokes about the text.

The page http://www.finstaronline.com/finstarmarketing.html has sentences that go on and on.

There's a sentence of over 50 words immediately followed by one of over 80 (if my rough count is correct). Both of these sentences are in "business speak" rather than plain English.

I'm not sure of the function of the site, though, understnading that may be a pre-requisite of finding it, so that may not be a problem.

if it ain't broke, don't fix it

I disagree.

If you're getting business from this site, that's great.

But that doesn't mean that a few simple changes to help readability wouldn't mean that you wouldn't increase the returns from your site.

Steve

finstar

16th August 2005, 05:35

It's all getting rather silly now that people are counting words in sentences.

Don't you people have your own businesses to run? If I had the time to count sentences on websites, that I might add I only found from a forum, then I would be seriously reviewing what I was doing with my own time, and seeing if I could make it more productive.

Wish I'd never added this post to this forum, and am unlikely to waste time adding any more.

Rob Holmes

16th August 2005, 07:03

Finstar, these people have taken time out to try to help - and actually just want your website to make you more money - as hard as the critisisms are to take (I don't think anyone likes too much critisism at once - no matter how constructive) they are seasoned, mature and time proven suggestions for increasing profits and responses from a website!

However I'm sure that people won't want to give suggestions if you don't want them.

Rob

SillyJokes

16th August 2005, 07:11

edit

Cornish Steve

16th August 2005, 12:43

It's all getting rather silly now that people are counting words in sentences.

It's a good idea to keep the number of words in a sentence to 20 or less. With overly long sentences, you are asking your readers to run a marathon instead of a series of short sprints.

As we offer constructive criticism, you are right to challenge our comments. In the end, you should do what you feel is right for your site.

webit

17th August 2005, 08:00

At the end of the day - listen to advice give here and feel free to ignore.

Yes we all have better 'things' to do and have been doing those 'things' on the Internet for a very long time. Myself, I've been involved on the Internet from the days of text only browsers on Compuserve (with a Psion and a fax moden) which was the norm in those days!.

Feel free to ask advice but dont get stressed if the answers are honest.

Twokids

17th August 2005, 08:26

I know how you feel Finstar...

Sometimes having your website criticised is like seeing a child of yours getting beaten up in the playground. We put so much sweat into these things that it’s hard to take objective criticism calmly - think of how film directors react when their efforts are panned by the press.

The positive side to this is that, unlike the film director, a website owner can continuously improve and tweak until his ‘baby’ is 90% perfect. I say 90% because it’s impossible to please everyone, and I can’t think of a single website on the whole of the Internet that is so perfect that there is no room for improvement.

Having said that I agree with most of what has been said above. (*ouch*) and the biggest critics will be the prospective customers – trouble is it is fiendishly difficult to measure how many of them are put off and never return. Getting criticism on a forum like this is probably the quickest, cheapest way to get honest feedback – painful as that might be.

So good luck with it!

webit

17th August 2005, 09:22

We've taken onboard a lot of advice and criticism regarding our site for one reason - these are the people who will be using our site and for that reason, even if I don't agree with whats being said, I have to give serious consideration to what people think.

kyber

17th August 2005, 09:57

Finstar I can build you a nice attractive site to you requirements for a cost effective price

If you have taken the time to plan this business out and to be honest the content does look good once you get past the appearance then you might as well make sure you have a decent website to display it on

Let me know if you are interested, i specialise in small/start up businesses and as i am new and so are you then we can come to an agreement over the price

Regards and speak soon

RichardYou make some good points and clearly have a better layout than finstar but I think that you really need to get your skills updated and remove all of the deprecated markup (font tags etc) and reduce your dependency (if not eliminate it) on table markup for layout from your own website before building too many sites for others. This will make it easier to build in WAI//508 etc compliance.

Stuart

webit

17th August 2005, 10:46

You make some good points and clearly have a better layout than webit

Can I have more info please.

kyber

17th August 2005, 17:24

You make some good points and clearly have a better layout than webit

Can I have more info please.
More info on what?

1. I was agreeing with others that had suggested that his site looks better than yours .
2. I was agreeing that he had made some good points (I did not say I agreed with them)
3. BUT, primarily, I was suggesting that he should not be offering to build websites for other people until he improves his technical skills (I did not comment futher on his graphics/visual skills).

He had offered to build you a better looking site. I was saying I did not think he service was up to snuff judging by his current home page. He may well produce something that looks better or represents what you do in a more appealing way. I am not a web designer but am fully aware that there is much more to the role than just technical skills. I had expected that it would be he that was asking for more information if anyone.

Stuart

webit

18th August 2005, 07:54

Sorry, I’m a bit slow this morning, who’s offered to build me a better looking site? Is this a reference to the Doctor-Webby offer to Finstar? I’m only interested as we’re undertaking an in-house redesign later this year and will shortly be asking for comments.

Doctor-Webby wrote:
Finstar I can build you a nice attractive site to you requirements for a cost effective price