View Full Version : Email marketing
Hi
Can I ask if anyone has tried an email marketing for his or her business? Buying a list or directly visiting the web site of a possible client and contacting them by email. How effective has it proved to be?
Thanks
John
daveashton
25th June 2005, 11:34
Yes and with very mixed results
First of all they need to be opt in only emails.
They also need to be well targeted
The promotional email needs to be very well done.
The best solution we have seen to date is to ask a email marketing company to do a free trial based on results only of 5-10k records. However to do this you will need tracking software ( not something we do or know much about) which If I remember rightly costs between 1-5k.
I take your point about opt in but if I was to visit your web site see what you do and could offer you a service that complimented your business and emailed you directly would you be interested. Does the one to one approach pay off do you think.
Interesting idea to ask for a free trial. As for tracking I do know a little about this and it is a very hit and miss affair due to the email client being used by the person that receives the email.
Thank you for your thoughts however.
epiphany
25th June 2005, 11:54
Depends on the size of the company JR, with smaller companies the email will probably go directly to the decision maker. With larger companies your email will probably be deleted.
In terms of emails go with what Dave says :) The only thing I would add is that are some newsletter services that charge a monthly fee and let you send newsletter from their website. This produces traceable click stats which essentially lets you know who is clicking what on the emails you are sending.
There is one niche market that I am thinking of exploring at this time so I guess that this conversation falls into the realm of “small companies”. My thoughts
1 I am only interested in people with an internet presence in this niche market
2 If I visit their web site and do a little research I can target the email to their style and requirements
3 I think I would be impressed if someone had taken the time and trouble to make a personal contact
daveashton
25th June 2005, 12:18
There is one niche market that I am thinking of exploring at this time so I guess that this conversation falls into the realm of “small companies”. My thoughts
1 I am only interested in people with an internet presence in this niche market
2 If I visit their web site and do a little research I can target the email to their style and requirements
3 I think I would be impressed if someone had taken the time and trouble to make a personal contactSorry JR but I would doubt anyone would recommend what is still technically SPAM.
If you also need to research the sites I would doubt your ROI will be high enough to justify your time.
Sorry if I am sounding like a wet blanket but I hope that this will save you a lot of wasted time for small results.
PS If you do go down this route I would like know your sales data numbers i.e. w research hours generated x emails that generated y sales z Gross margin profit.
Good luck
I am not certain that this would technically be spam, but that’s not an argument that I want to get into. However I take the point about ROI. Interesting that you have responded to this post I was looking at your web site this morning and it does make interesting reading. What I did not see was an example figure for the cost of your service and an example of a successful campaign that demonstrates the ROI.
That said it’s a good read :)
Actually can I just ask the question what would your advice be on breaking into a niche market?
epiphany
25th June 2005, 13:12
Well give us a hint to what the niche is :)
And what you are talking about doing wouldn't be spam :)
tr.v. spammed, spam·ming, spams
To send unsolicited e-mail to.
To send (a message) indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups.
Ok
1 the niche market are fruit producers
2 I don't think that visiting a web site and researching that company before then contacting them is spam. If it is why is there a contact (including yours) link on most web sites. The whole idea of the web is communication - or did I get that wrong :)
SillyJokes
25th June 2005, 14:52
I get tonnes of what I consider targetted spam every day but it does not annoy me.
Most of it is from China or Pakistan and many are offering stuff that I might be interested in the future, the rest is way off the mark but it usually makes me chuckle.
Sometimes I'm offered something that is actually interesting and that's great.
In fact to be honest, I'm surprised that I am not approached by more UK suppliers and consider their failure to do so as a lapse on their part - over looking what could be a very good way to find new retailers.
I do not think it is a waste of your time researching a potential customer's site and contacting them with a personal email. If they become a customer then they may recommend you on to others and it doesn't take all that long to research a website. You've got to start somewhere. I sometimes do this when seeking new affilaites.
Now that’s a reasonable comment well made. Actually we are all exposed to 3000 advertising impressions each day. I don’t see that many super glueing their letterbox not turning on their computer or throwing their mobile phone away. Guess what it is a fact of life.
daveashton
25th June 2005, 15:25
Now that’s a reasonable comment well made. Actually we are all exposed to 3000 advertising impressions each day. I don’t see that many super glueing their letterbox shut turning on their computer or throwing their mobile phone away. Guess what it is a fact of life.Sending emails without permission is a strange thing.
Like a few others on here IF people have done their research it should interest me and hence am happy to receive it. Unfortunately not every thinks that way so other solutions could be worth a look
i.e. you can buy address lists and send a letter,
you can profile the company using telesales and for people that you can provide a solution to, either book meetings, ask them if they would mind monthly quarterly emails, invite them to events/ seminars etc.
A good but rarely used strategy is to find out who currently sells to these people and do a joint marketing campaign or turn the into resellers. This also gives you added credibility which is invaluable in sales the process.
Obviously PPC could well be worth a look and again there are better people than us to research your key phrases for you.
The best strategy is to try a few different methods on a small scale and evaluate the ROI before you jump in with both feet. This also helps if you are looking for funding because it show people that you know your routes to market and what will happen when you invest in the sales activities i.e. what the returns will be!
I really am having trouble with this sending email without permission thing. Partly because you then say that if the sender has done their homework it’s ok, which is the very point I thought I had made.
As for buying a list and sending a letter the very reason for researching the market online was to identify who was internet savvy. Also would not buying a list and sending a letter not be junk mail?
As for telesales I personally have a problem with people who phone me uninvited as it takes up my time and email I can make a decision on in my own time. Plus I have no idea what a telesales campaign would cost or how effective it would be.
The last idea is a good, one and one which has occurred to me in the past and one, which I will look at in the future. Clearly the approach I am suggesting is very much a matter of opinion but all feedback is good
Thank you
daveashton
25th June 2005, 16:07
LOL
The problem is I agree with you but the law does not! So unsolicited email sending person with big heart, highly targeted campaign and probably great solution beware!
This again show how strange the law is. You can send letters unsolicited but not email. You can also telephone most companies because very few have opted out or even know how to so (and no we have not opted out for the same reason your email would not offend.)
PS I am v curious as to what you are selling
PPS If they are not internet savvy why not sell them a website?
I am going to disagree and then check my facts about unsolicited email. ;)
My argument goes like this
1 You sell a product and advertise it online and have your email address on your web site
2 I sell a product that I feel would compliment your offering
3 I email you telling you how my product could improve your offering
I don’t think that is unsolicited email. Had I emailed you with an offer that had nothing to do with what you were selling that would be a different story.
How ever I will look for the lawful answer to this.
At the moment I am not selling anything – just doing the research. However I do have a product waiting in the wings but it’s a bit to early to mention what it is in a public place.
The reason that I would not want to sell them a web site is that is not what I do. I offer customer after care solutions to businesses that need to maintain contact with their client base. As my product is internet based it makes sense just to target the internet savvy I think.
daveashton
25th June 2005, 17:42
Re the law, someone on here should be able to help.
re only selling to internet savvy companies, remember that this info is usefull to web companies and hence I would also look at selling the leads/ data or making commision on the sales.
Re the law, someone on here should be able to help.
re only selling to internet savvy companies, remember that this info is usefull to web companies and hence I would also look at selling the leads/ data or making commision on the sales.
I really hope someone can give us an answer in English, just spent 30 minutes looking :)
I don't quite understand the part about selling leads/data. This is my company offering an add on service to what they already provide.
epiphany
25th June 2005, 23:44
It's like this JR :D I'll boil it down :)
European Union
You can't send emails to a consumer unless they opt in.
You can send emails to a corporation but you have to give them an opt out option
for more info and other links read this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/12/10/uk_antispam_law_goes_live/
USA
Less strict
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/12/09/congress_passes_antispam_bill/
I hope this helps :)
Thanks and this is getting very complex. If I understand this correctly (see * below) it is acceptable to send an email to a person at his or her work email address provided that it is for a product that is suitable for their business. If that is a good business practise or not is debatable. I might have that wrong so what I will do is get some professional advice tomorrow and post the answer here.
What a can of worms
What happens if I want to send marketing emails to business email addresses?
In simple terms, the Regulations do not apply to marketing emails sent to company employees (except employees at partnerships and sole traders), even if that email address incorporates the name of a living individual, and even if the email relates to goods or services that are for personal use.
If the email address identifies a living individual, you will instead need to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998. Amongst other things, this means that you would need to give recipients at business email addresses a right to optout of receiving any marketing from you, e.g.:
“Please tick this box if you do not want to receive any marketing from us [] ”.
* By way of example, the Regulations would not apply if a marketing email was sent to John Smith, an account manager from an advertising agency, at his work address john.smith@advertisingagency.com. The Regulations would, however, apply if a marketing email was sent to John Smith at his personal email address, john.smith@yahoo.com.
The opt-in and soft opt-in requirements in the CAP Code, on the other hand, apply to all individuals, irrespective of whether the marketing message is sent to their business account or their personal account. The opt-in and soft opt-in requirements do not, however, apply to marketing communications about business products that are sent to email accounts of company employees.
* For example, the CAP Code would apply if John Smith was sent a marketing email from a wine merchant, irrespective of whether that email was sent to his home or work email address, but not if a company sent a marketing email about software suitable for advertising agencies to John Smith’s work account.
To achieve full legal and regulatory compliance, therefore, the stricter standard of the CAP Code should be adopted. In other words, if you are marketing products aimed at consumers, then you should always get the explicit consent of the proposed recipients of your emails unless you fall within the soft opt-in criteria. If you are intending to send marketing emails about business products to company employees only, you will not need explicit consent. However, as CAP’s help note urges marketers to seek explicit consent from everyone before sending marketing emails, it is advisable to always use an opt-in box.
Rob Holmes
26th June 2005, 12:52
You are far better off just getting people to opt in - even if legally they don't have to.
Not only does this cover you legally but the very act of a consumer or end user opting into a lisr establishes they are at least somewhat interested in your product.
I have been email marketing and providing email marketing systems for years and opting in is really the only way to do it. It was BEFORE the new laws came into power and it certainly is now.
BTW purchasing a list does not qualify the people on the list as opting in to your campaign. You can buy lists where people (usually unwittingly via some small print) have agreed to receive 3rd party mailings - but they haven't opted into your list and you'll need to get them to do this if you want to successfully carry on emailing them without annoying them.
Rob
Hi Rob
I absolutely agree with you when it comes to subscribing to lists. However my point is that this is a direct business to business approach. A one time offer of something that fits well with another business brand. It’s a little like me emailing you with 100 servers going cheap, would it be better that I made you a one time offer using a means of communication called email – a letter – or a telemarketer.
Who knows if you were interested we might end up in a successful long term beneficial relationship. Email one on one is just a means of communication after all.
I am going to make some calls tomorrow and resolve this once and for all. That said I think this has been a good thread not just for the conversation about email but also other interesting points have been raised that might help others. This is not science it’s learning :)
John
Rob Holmes
26th June 2005, 13:14
Hi JR,
I understand that B2B emails legally do not require optin BUT how do you ensure they are only business email addresses? What constitutes an business address and what constitutes a personal email address ? Some businesses have email addresses at yahoo and aol etc - other businesses let their employees have personal email addresses using the business domain name. Both practices are probably wrong but not illegal.
Doing anything without optin confirmation is very very high risk and who knows - they may get you on a technicality - your ISP could get the IP or Nameservers banned in which case you'll simply get shut down.
The letter of the law is such a thin line that if you decide to operate right up to the edge of the line I fear you may well expose yourself to financial and other risk.
Chat with a solicitor, I'm sure he'll advise you toe the safest line possible :) but remember it'll be down to you not the solicitor to verify that each email address is a business or personal one - in which case you may as well ask them to optin :D
Rob
Rob Holmes
26th June 2005, 13:16
in addition I believe the law allows you to email them once to ask them to optin.
in addition I believe the law allows you to email them once to ask them to optin.
Interesting but I don't want anyone to opt in to anything. I am just opening a channel of communication.
I will get some advice tomorrow and attempt to find an answer that benefits all of us. My point is that I had not planned on making a list this is one to one. I am just looking at email as the preferred – by some - means of communication. However as Dave pointed out does the amount of effort justify this route, very good point and one I cannot answer at this time. Maybe we should start a poll called How would you like to be contacted by another business offering you a complimentary service?
1 email
2 snail mail
3 phone
3 seminar
4 trade event
5 telepathy
6 not at all
It might be interesting
Rob Holmes
26th June 2005, 15:41
Yes - the poll is a good idea - I'm sure many will benefit from knowing the answer!
Go for it!
I'll have a ponder to see how I'd like to be contacted.
:)
Rob
Ok Rob :)
How do I do that here?
John
Rob Holmes
26th June 2005, 20:14
Start a new thread and you'll see at the bottom the sectiona fill in to create a poll :)
Then maybe post a link to it from here too.
Rob
Hi Guys
Sorry I have not got back to you before but I have had one of those weeks. Called data protection folk and the simple answer is, we are all correct.
1 Can you send unsolicited email to a business?
Yes if it is a business-related offer
2 Can you send unsolicited email to an individual?
Yes if it is made clear to that individual how to not receive further emails.
I think the contents of this thread just about sum up the answers. More interestingly is the fact that I have had such a mad week it has allowed me to think more about the comments that have been made here.
Dave wrote
If you also need to research the sites I would doubt your ROI will be high enough to justify your time.
Sorry if I am sounding like a wet blanket but I hope that this will save you a lot of wasted time for small results.
Silly jokes
In fact to be honest, I'm surprised that I am not approached by more UK suppliers and consider their failure to do so as a lapse on their part - over looking what could be a very good way to find new retailers.
Rob wrote
I understand that B2B emails legally do not require optin BUT how do you ensure they are only business email addresses? What constitutes an business address and what constitutes a personal email address ?
I think that the point that Dave makes is a very good one. In my case I have many projects on the go and a busy day job as well. I think the lesson that I have learnt here is. One busy person cannot do everything and there comes a point where the sensible way to go to get your product or service to the next level is to ask yourself the question. “Do I really believe in this enough to spend money getting another company involved?” Then of course you have to find that company and attempt to work out the ROI of doing it!
It’s been a good learning exercise for me and I thank you for your time and comments. I would advise others to ask themselves the above question.
So it’s put up or shut up time for me
:D
Can anyone give me a ball park figure for finding business leads?
Webstuff
2nd July 2005, 11:39
I'm confused;
many sites offer a "recommend this site / product to a friend"... is that allowed? Can someone else opt you in?
Hi webstuff
Oh god here we go again :)
What a fine question. I have no idea as to an answer for this one.
1 As a friend if I thought it would interest you I could use a send to a friend link but I would be opting you into a database – I don’t know how happy you would be about that
2 I guess that the first email that it would send is that a friend thinks this might interest you and you are given the choice to opt out at that time
3 In the real world how would you know that you had really been removed from that list
4 I would be more inclined to send you the link to the web site and let you deceide.
But a very interesting question non the less - discuss if you dare :)
Rob Holmes
2nd July 2005, 16:41
Hi - I would say no a friend cannot opt you in but a friend can currently use a tell a friend system...
As time goes on and people become more neurotic and protective about their email addresses these 'tell a friend' systems may fall foul of the law but at the moment they do not constitute a mailing list (so long as the name is not stored anywhere).
Still better getting someone to opt-in, not from a legal point of view but from a sales point of view.
For a legal optin you would need a system that records IP address and date of original mailing and of optin date for traceablity.
The only way you could not-illegally opt a friend in is to confirm the optin for them. It would constitute a legal optin and stand up in court even if the friend objected because it is their fault you had access to their pc to confirm the optin.
Someone will pick me up on the double negative but I used it on purpose :)
Rob