£2000 for a new car?

[wood1e2]

Is this really a good thing, the government looking to offer £2000 to anyone who buys a new car or one year old car in exchange for their old car. As long as the old car is more than 7 or 9 years old...!!!

Shouldn't we look at over production of a product not everyone wants?
Is puching people back into debt one of the reasons we are where we are?
Not only that high interest debt!!!

Environmentally an old car must be far better than a new car...being that the carbon foot print must outway the feul efficiency savings!!

Why not look at increasing the tax benefits for fleet car purchases and other company car owners.

[Moneyman]

Dont think about anything but votes even if it is a bad idea long term.
Gordon is a moron.

[The Pines]

Is this really a good thing, the government looking to offer £2000 to anyone who buys a new car or one year old car in exchange for their old car. As long as the old car is more than 7 or 9 years old...!!!

Shouldn't we look at over production of a product not everyone wants?
Is puching people back into debt one of the reasons we are where we are?
Not only that high interest debt!!!


Roll up, roll up. Get yourself mortgaged up on a depreciating asset. Idiots.


Environmentally an old car must be far better than a new car...being that the carbon foot print must outway the feul efficiency savings!!


I think the figure is something like... there is more pollution created in the manufacture of a new car than that car will produce for the first 150,000 miles on the road.
Yes, cars have lower emissions, and get much higher mpg, but body panels don't grow on trees, engines don't spring forth from the ground, and leather trim doesn't wash up on the shoreline.
There is a massive amount of pollution created in the manufacture of a car - just have a look at Wolfsburg for example (main VW plant). The place is covered in a thick dirty smog 99% of the time.


Why not look at increasing the tax benefits for fleet car purchases and other company car owners.


The Govt seem to want to do anything EXCEPT give tax rebates. They'd rather squander £000' billions on 'initiatives' than actually give people money back into their pockets.

[inspiremydesign]

I swear they said £2500? Still, the average people own cars for about 3-4 years, its impossible to run a car of 9 - 10 years old.. think about the repair and maintainance costs!

[Dawg]

I've run a 15 year old Merc and a 10 year old Volvo very well thank you. Great cars, more land yachts than cars, especially compared to today's Euroboxes.

(And its 2500 Euro,in Germany, £2000 in the UK)

[MH1]

its impossible to run a car of 9 - 10 years old.. think about the repair and maintainance costs!

Strange, most the world's drivers manage it no problem at all. The only reason think this way is they buy into the motor companies PR, a decent car should last for 20-30yrs these days, they just make more money by ensuring they do not.

[inspiremydesign]

I've run a 15 year old Merc and a 10 year old Volvo very well thank you. Great cars, more land yachts than cars, especially compared to today's Euroboxes.

(And its 2500 Euro,in Germany, £2000 in the UK)

____________________________________

Yikes! I would like the option of owning a classic but only if its value was climbing. But dont they produce more higher emissions compared to today's refined economical Euroboxes (excluding the luxury 4x4's) ?

[inspiremydesign]

Strange, most the world's drivers manage it no problem at all. The only reason think this way is they buy into the motor companies PR, a decent car should last for 20-30yrs these days, they just make more money by ensuring they do not.

__________________________

I can slightly agree to that. I bought my car brand new last july and I'm faced with RUSTED DISK BRAKES, squeaky brakes, oil leak :O! I'm so shocked - damn french cars!

[inspiremydesign]

I think the government should enform more economical solutions by now! Than offering money to upgrade cars, why not upgrade it to decent road bicycles, cycling gear, safer layout of bicycle lanes.. anyways.. princes charles recently warned us.. we have 100 months to act.. hmm.

[inspiremydesign]

before the whole planet goes AWOL in global warming*

[J-Wholesale]

...the average people own cars for about 3-4 years, its impossible to run a car of 9 - 10 years old.. think about the repair and maintainance costs!

My car's 11 years old. I'd buy a new one, but there's just nothing wrong with the one I have now. I did pay about £30 to get a little work down early last year to get it through its NCT (MOT), but that's about it. The advantage of driving an older car is you're never paranoid about it getting scratched or banged up, and chances are you don't have to take out any sort of finance to afford it.

The average person may own a car for 3-4 years (if a 5-10K loan qualifies as ownership), but I can see that changing very, very soon.

[Matt1959]

its impossible to run a car of 9 - 10 years old.. think about the repair and maintainance costs!

lol, I wonder how people will quote this:) our car is 10 years old, my vans 11 years old, and in terms of affordability cost little. Well made older cars seldom go badly wrong and if they do they are not dear to fix. The wallet emptiers are the newer cars that cost telephone numbers when they break down not to mention depreciation and buying costs....

[Esk247]

my estates 10 years old this year...got plenty of life in the old beast yet..156,000 miles and still able to tow a trailer around..why would i waste £15,000 on a new car??? just so i can have gadgets?? erm no actually because my estate is top of the range, air con, electric windows all round, abs, cruise control etc etc i can go on! why would i want to replace it???

if i spend £1,000 on my car this year in repairs its still cheaper than paying 10,000 to a salesman and ending up with a new car that will probably still end up back at the garage because of electrical problems or computer malfunctions.

its a government scheme to take all old cars off the road and replace them with new cars, thus gaining tax from sales, tax from increased insurance premiums on newer vehicles that are more likely to be stolen and bring it under the banner of 'oh look at us..we're saving the planet' BALLS! my car is perfectly fine, emissions tests are the same as a new car and if you keep it well serviced you can run a car for 300,000 miles without many problems. FACT!

[inspiremydesign]

lol, I wonder how people will quote this:) our car is 10 years old, my vans 11 years old, and in terms of affordability cost little. Well made older cars seldom go badly wrong and if they do they are not dear to fix. The wallet emptiers are the newer cars that cost telephone numbers when they break down not to mention depreciation and buying costs....

______________________________

I dont doubt that for a second but I was just raising a concern.. anyways.. now that everyone is currently focusing on carbon footprints and greener emission, its safe to say newer cars are 120% more economical than older cars.. wouldn't you agree?. It's built with the latest technology and highly upgraded to meet lower emissions.. old cars pollute the air quality, leaves a bad dusty old smell! Other day I'm driving behind a VW Beetle.. the smoke pouring out of that exhaust was shocking!! At one point, my view of the road disappeared! And more commonly, I've seen old cars break down on motorways .. dont you listen to the traffic news every morning.. ''car broken down at blackwall tunnel'' .. EVERY DAY!!!! Trust me.. its frustrating to sit waiting in a tunnel for 3 hours!!!
I'd say switch to cycling, motorbikes or public transport.. you'll do your credit cards a favour & your health.. AND the morning rush hour TRAFFIC :D

[Esk247]

______________________________

I dont doubt that for a second but I was just raising a concern.. anyways.. now that everyone is currently focusing on carbon footprints and greener emission, its safe to say newer cars are 120% more economical than older cars.. wouldn't you agree?. It's built with the latest technology and highly upgraded to meet lower emissions.. old cars pollute the air quality, leaves a bad dusty old smell! Other day I'm driving behind a VW Beetle.. the smoke pouring out of that exhaust was shocking!! At one point, my view of the road disappeared! And more commonly, I've seen old cars break down on motorways .. dont you listen to the traffic news every morning.. ''car broken down at blackwall tunnel'' .. EVERY DAY!!!! Trust me.. its frustrating to sit waiting in a tunnel for 3 hours!!!
I'd say switch to cycling, motorbikes or public transport.. you'll do your credit cards a favour & your health.. AND the morning rush hour TRAFFIC :D


sorry but i have to have a rant...public transport??? oookkk come to whitby and get on the 93 to middlesbrough, a place where i work alot...erm..can't do it! bus has broken down twice this week alone.FACT friend has to go to uni and is sick of breaking down..i don't see your employer taking kindly to that.

Cycling??? erm..in my town??? HAHAHAHAHA not a chance! no cycle lanes, large lorries on twisting country roads and nearest major town is 30 miles away

cars pollute?? erm when i rev my engine to go up a hill no smoke comes out of the exhaust at all..FACT..i've been followed around by friends and they're amazed how clean the engine is on my car, even the garage said its emissions where the same as a 5 year old renault clio...and its a 2 litre estate.

sorry for the rant but..come on..i've tried to be as good to the environment as i can but its hard!!

OH and while i'm in a rant..recycle??? SHOVE OFF! my nearest recycling centre is 2.5 miles away and to carry all the rubbish i have to get the car out! FACT no buses go to the recyling centre FACT

right i best go before i kick a stool over...again!

[wood1e2]

I had a look at a replacement for my D reg 205 TRD.

Peugeot 307 9.9% finance ok so thats not that bad. 3 years of £178 per month (current 205 costs me fuel £40), With a final payment of £5400 which is is less than the car will be worth 3 years down the road (based on the fact you can buy an 08 plate 308 for £7995)

Then you will be tied into main dealer servicing charges...which is where they make their money. In my limited experience 50% more expensive than a car mechanic away from the main dealer!! But then you infringe on the warranty!!

So really this is the Lord Mandy's lets give the tax payer £2000 to get into more debt!!

Fine when you earn enough to set up a blind trust!! Or need £250,000 for flowers/pot plants (or maybe that was the whole department!! can't remember)

[Chris H]

I couldn't afford to get a new motor, even if I wanted one. But it's good to see Gordon giving away my tax to those who can afford it.

Someone needs to remind Gordon, and Alistair just exactly whose money it is they're so keen to spend.

My Fiat is about 10 years old with over 100k on the clock. When it goes pop I'm going to buy a big old Volvo estate, petrol, auto. Mind you, I'll be paying for the privilege through artificial taxes set to generate income for Gordon and to placate the hippies.

[quikshop]

Lol, my car is 11 years old but was towed to that great Mitsubishi garage in the sky this weekend :(:rolleyes:

I am in the market for a replacement car (no PMs offering me cars please :p) but I will not be taking Gordon up on his German-copied scheme because it only applies to new or one-year old cars.

A 3 year old motor with less than 20k on the clock for a 3rd of the price of a new car (even after the 2k giveaway) will do just fine...

[quikshop]

AND another thing!

The Government should be rewarding innovation instead of paying industry to churn out more into an over-populated market.

Cars that run on hydrogen, natural gas powered cars and FORCING the petrol companies (cartel) to install a large enough network of refuelling stations for said technologies.

Tooooooooooooooooo many vested interests holding back genuine polices and thinking, I wonder which Oil Company Gordon will take a Directorship with once he's kicked out next year :mad::D

[Moneyman]

i have a new car coming on monday as old people carrier is crocked. i was offered £200 for it! but now i am keeping it to see what i can get for a future new car when i replace the mazda.

It will like the stamp duty fiasco. the government hints at a discount and all trade stops and waits for the handout. Then you find in the detail that it only applies in special cases. I dont know how many jobs were lost as a result of the stamp duty wait but far more than will be helped by the measure.

Advance anouncement leaks just make things work.

[garyk]

I swear they said £2500? Still, the average people own cars for about 3-4 years, its impossible to run a car of 9 - 10 years old.. think about the repair and maintainance costs!

Hogwash! It is completely feasible to run older cars, in fact you're better off because your depreciation is much less and chances are you will probably be able to take it to many more garages other than the main dealer because it doesnt have service lights that need resetting. I have previously run two very old cars, one made in 1969 and one made in 1973 and could use either as a daily driver.

[Estimator]

They are desperate to keep the population in debt aren't they? :(
The roads of this little island are saturated anyway.
Gridlock, pollution, noise and daily misery for some just trying to get to their work so that they can pay more tax to the government.:mad:
The govt help us with congestion charges (tax) and car sharing lanes(fines)
We dont need newer cars, we need fewer cars.

[glennmid101]

The idea of creating artificial demand is a great way to waste money. Also what are the costs of administrating the cost, is there potential for fraud?

The government would be rewarding an industry that has fought tooth and nail against fuel economy, put back by decades, research into electric vehicles, and lumbered consumers and taxpayers with high fuel costs, and government bail outs.

It wasn't the environmental lobby how stood in the way of fuel efficient cars.

http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/

[NCA]

Being a bit of petrolhead I have 3 cars. 7,10 and 28 years old. The 7 and 28 year old ones are of siginficantly higher value than £2K. To replace the 10 year old one with the equivalent new model would be around £50K. A 2K discount is not going to induce me to buy a new one with the current economic outlook.

[easiprint]

______________________________

Other day I'm driving behind a VW Beetle.. the smoke pouring out of that exhaust was shocking!! At one point, my view of the road disappeared! And more commonly, I've seen old cars break down on motorways .. dont you listen to the traffic news every morning.. ''car broken down at blackwall tunnel'' .. EVERY DAY!!!! Trust me.. its frustrating to sit waiting in a tunnel for 3 hours!!!



A VW Beetle is a rather extreme case tho isn't it - you dont get many of those about these days, and they are much older than 10 years old. Most 10 year old cars are still capable of serving you very well.

I drive a 10 year old Volvo estate, and have had it years. Best car I have driven. I have hired new cars occasionally, but none of them are as nice as my Volvo to drive. 230,000 miles and still going strong, and never lets me down. All the gadgets I could want, and with it's personalised number plate, looks good too in my opinion.

And I have to disagree with you about old cars breaking down. When I'm up and down the M1 in the summer, the cars on the hard shoulder with their bonnets up are always under 4 years old. Just not built the same as they used to be. I certainly would not buy a new car.

[garyk]

______________________________

I dont doubt that for a second but I was just raising a concern.. anyways.. now that everyone is currently focusing on carbon footprints and greener emission, its safe to say newer cars are 120% more economical than older cars.. wouldn't you agree?. It's built with the latest technology and highly upgraded to meet lower emissions.. old cars pollute the air quality, leaves a bad dusty old smell! Other day I'm driving behind a VW Beetle.. the smoke pouring out of that exhaust was shocking!! At one point, my view of the road disappeared! And more commonly, I've seen old cars break down on motorways .. dont you listen to the traffic news every morning.. ''car broken down at blackwall tunnel'' .. EVERY DAY!!!! Trust me.. its frustrating to sit waiting in a tunnel for 3 hours!!!
I'd say switch to cycling, motorbikes or public transport.. you'll do your credit cards a favour & your health.. AND the morning rush hour TRAFFIC :D

You are making a big assumption that the car broken down is old, it would be interesting to see the actual figures, new cars break as well but I think running out of petrol is a common cause. Must say I did buy a mk2 cortina from ebay that I had to drive back from Kent and go through the dartford tunnel and I was absolutely $hitting myself and praying it wouldnt fail in the tunnel!

[inspiremydesign]

sorry but i have to have a rant...public transport??? oookkk come to whitby and get on the 93 to middlesbrough, a place where i work alot...erm..can't do it! bus has broken down twice this week alone.FACT friend has to go to uni and is sick of breaking down..i don't see your employer taking kindly to that.

Cycling??? erm..in my town??? HAHAHAHAHA not a chance! no cycle lanes, large lorries on twisting country roads and nearest major town is 30 miles away

cars pollute?? erm when i rev my engine to go up a hill no smoke comes out of the exhaust at all..FACT..i've been followed around by friends and they're amazed how clean the engine is on my car, even the garage said its emissions where the same as a 5 year old renault clio...and its a 2 litre estate.

sorry for the rant but..come on..i've tried to be as good to the environment as i can but its hard!!

OH and while i'm in a rant..recycle??? SHOVE OFF! my nearest recycling centre is 2.5 miles away and to carry all the rubbish i have to get the car out! FACT no buses go to the recyling centre FACT

right i best go before i kick a stool over...again!

__________________________

Lol Geez... calm down mate! I dont control public transport.. I was just sharing an opinion :)

Obviously you need a car for everyday life but some people use it for the most irregular things.. like going to the shop 5 minz away .. heh.. well I'll keep shtum if its to the market for the weekly shop, a bicycle wont be able to carry 10 plastic bags ;)

I think the government expects us to pay some sort of tax like drivers.. then they might consider proposing safer cycle lanes, cycle only roads etc, but who knows..

[inspiremydesign]

You are making a big assumption that the car broken down is old, it would be interesting to see the actual figures, new cars break as well but I think running out of petrol is a common cause. Must say I did buy a mk2 cortina from ebay that I had to drive back from Kent and go through the dartford tunnel and I was absolutely $hitting myself and praying it wouldnt fail in the tunnel!

_________________________

Lol! Yeh I make over the top assumptions sometimes, I didnt notice my petrol finished one day.. and I blocked all the traffic on a very narrow one way road.. but thats something silly and my fault.

So who thinks this government scheme to give you £2000 to upgrade a newer car. I keep thinking, are they just doing this to restart public purchases in the car industry, we've all seen the news lately .. almost all car makers have suffered horrendously in the recession.
Who's thinking about taking up the offer?

Let us know :)

[Nickdavis87]

When a viable electric car hits the market i will sell my crappy Saxo.

[inspiremydesign]

Hogwash! It is completely feasible to run older cars, in fact you're better off because your depreciation is much less and chances are you will probably be able to take it to many more garages other than the main dealer because it doesnt have service lights that need resetting. I have previously run two very old cars, one made in 1969 and one made in 1973 and could use either as a daily driver.

________________________________

Hmm.. slightly agree with you there.. older cars are better because of depreciation.. a month after driving out the showroom last july.. the same car dealer valued it at £2000 LESS :O What the??
I was thinking about buying an old car but my mate recently picked up a free 1989 peugeot 307 from the scrap yard, gave it a new engine but..it leaks oil and breaks down everyyyyyyyyyy day!! I told the idiot instead of spending £3-4k fixing it up.. get a new car!!! Typical..

[garyk]

_________________________

Lol! Yeh I make over the top assumptions sometimes, I didnt notice my petrol finished one day.. and I blocked all the traffic on a very narrow one way road.. but thats something silly and my fault.

So who thinks this government scheme to give you £2000 to upgrade a newer car. I keep thinking, are they just doing this to restart public purchases in the car industry, we've all seen the news lately .. almost all car makers have suffered horrendously in the recession.
Who's thinking about taking up the offer?

Let us know :)

I don't think its enough and Ive heard dealers are taking a battering from wised-up punters anyway, i.e. having to slash thousands off the ticket price to shift em. As many others have said on here before it seems crazy pumping in millions of pounds when the massive amount of existing stock cannot be sold.

[inspiremydesign]

They are desperate to keep the population in debt aren't they? :(
The roads of this little island are saturated anyway.
Gridlock, pollution, noise and daily misery for some just trying to get to their work so that they can pay more tax to the government.:mad:
The govt help us with congestion charges (tax) and car sharing lanes(fines)
We dont need newer cars, we need fewer cars.

_________________

Great statement;) I'm a green eco enthusiast.. but occasionaly drive a diesel city car here and there. It sound like they do want to keep the population in debt.. last time I heard prime minister brown say.. keep spending your credit cards to get out of debt .. WHATTTT :O Isnt it the other way round....

I recently visited Venice, Italy.. to research the transport problems there.. Its quite a small island.. population of £60k -70k... I was there for 5 days.. but i stayed on the outer skirt in Mestre.. comparing it to venice which was car free.. due to the river - roads... mestre was misty, air quality was unbearable.. no sunshine! Clogged up roads with cars, buses, coaches.. and half of them were empty!

The point I'm trying to make is.. there is one person per car.. I didnt see not one bicycle or motorbike.. There was a bike parking station opposite my hotel next to the train station .. but it was locked up and abandoned!

Thats when my motivation started firing up!! GEt more people on bikes in the uk - especially London.. alot of people complain you cant get through traffic safely let alone park without getting it stolen! If the government wont do it .. We'l do it without them! No ProblemO! Although it will be sometime until we see a decrease in car use and increase in 2 wheels :)

[inspiremydesign]

I don't think its enough and Ive heard dealers are taking a battering from wised-up punters anyway, i.e. having to slash thousands off the ticket price to shift em. As many others have said on here before it seems crazy pumping in millions of pounds when the massive amount of existing stock cannot be sold.

_____________________________

I dont understand .. how are they going to shift the old stock? Theres a car supermarket near where i live.. which is called 'car giant' .. its hugeee.. size of wembley stadium.. but the cars havent been moving.. they've instead been pouring out on the side streets due to over stock, no purchases.. but they have quite low prices.. I dont get why they dont have customers. back in 2007 a range rover vogue would cost £45k .. car giants is £26k now.. ouch!

[MH1]

the cars havent been moving.. they've instead been pouring out on the side streets due to over stock, no purchases.. but they have quite low prices.. I dont get why they dont have customers. back in 2007 a range rover vogue would cost £45k .. car giants is £26k now.. ouch!

The answers simple, the market price of the range rover is still too high, when it falls toot he correct level then it will start to sell again.

The authorities around the world should be concentrating on reducing car production due to the over supply problems in the industry, to make the whole industry viable again. Making the huge bail outs dependant on reducing production capabilities would have been a start, and switching some factories to completely electric powered vehicles would be a step in the right direction.

My ten year old Shogun runs as smooth as silk, carries a family of five in comfort, and up to seven people at a time, and is used only when really necessary, my weekly fuel bill is under £40, it costs £95 to fill the tank.

I have no plans to change it, why would I? An equivalent new car would cost £35k+, which would then lose 60% of it's value in the first 3 yrs of use, whilst not doing the job any better than my present vehicle. I ran my last van to 360,000 miles before selling it after buying it with 96,000 on the clock, nothing wrong with older vehicles with some milage, as long as they are maintained correctly.

[dp0848]

I don't think its enough and Ive heard dealers are taking a battering from wised-up punters anyway, i.e. having to slash thousands off the ticket price to shift em. As many others have said on here before it seems crazy pumping in millions of pounds when the massive amount of existing stock cannot be sold.

Defiantly worth doing your homework if you are in the market for a new car. I purchased a new car just before Christmas - just a little run about for work. With a bit of negotiating I got the price down from £10,500 to £7,800. :)

[seasonsonline]

I ONLY EVER drive old cars, and I do it on purpose. I like old cars because they've got more character, they're cheap to buy, it's a form of recycling and it makes more sense to me to buy a car for a few hundred quid and get every last mile out of it.- Then you just move onto another.

Put it this way, as long as the car is in reasonable condition the costs are far less then buying a new car!- Plus, it's much more fun and you get to drive far more cars in the long run.

I consider myself a kind of "car eco warrior", giving the old cars one final chance before they are rejected and doomed for the junk yard.

[Esk247]

wasn't it ford who actually UPPED the price 'due to a worldwide recession' :|

as said in a previous post..knock the price of a new car down to a real price and more people will take the investment in a newer car and run it for 3 years. but with some little ford fiesta thing going for £12,995 :eek: when i can get a seriously stunning BMW thats 5 years old for £3,995 .. i just dont understand their thinking.

as said in another post..if they make a viable, electric/hybrid/fuel cell car that operates in a normal everyday, turn the key and drive, environment i'll scrap my old tank and go and buy one.

[garyk]

I ONLY EVER drive old cars, and I do it on purpose. I like old cars because they've got more character, they're cheap to buy, it's a form of recycling and it makes more sense to me to buy a car for a few hundred quid and get every last mile out of it.- Then you just move onto another.

Put it this way, as long as the car is in reasonable condition the costs are far less then buying a new car!- Plus, it's much more fun and you get to drive far more cars in the long run.

I consider myself a kind of "car eco warrior", giving the old cars one final chance before they are rejected and doomed for the junk yard.

Good on ya!

But please don't give an austin allegro, an austin princess or a morris marina a second chance, those things should never see light of day again! :D

Gary

[stevon]

Agreed with one of the posters (cant remember im absolutely steaming..)

Buy old cars... My BMW has got 175k miles on the clock, started it after sitting for four days in the freezing Aberdonian snow and it fired up like a champ. Absolutely tremendous. Cant beat it on the motorway either, easily runs smoother than any of the newer cars I've had (esp. the French ones)

Still won't put me off buying a 205 GTi this year though - best hot hatches ever produced bar none.

[PaddyPawsPetServices]

I think this idea is total madness, mere fact that the Government wants us to get into more debt...funny isnt that the reason why we are in this mess anyway!?

My personal opinion is that rather than setting up these silly ideas, and trying to get more debt on people who are already struggling, is that the government should give every working person 5k to do with whatever they see fit ( so long as its legal ) most would go and spend it, there by getting the economy going again.

Back to the subject of cars, my Dad bought a 406 diesel back in 1996, with nearly 250k on the clock, she is still going strong. My OH bought an R reg 406 last year with 60k on the clock, ( less than 1k ) and it will do us for quite a few years. They both have good MOTS, are reliable etc and probs better for the environment too than buying brand new ones ( not to mention better looking LOL )
I have my test booked for June, I will be spending no more than £800 on my car, im hoping ( really hoping ) for a decent late 90's auto Volvo!

[garyk]

Still won't put me off buying a 205 GTi this year though - best hot hatches ever produced bar none.

Awesome as it is the 205 I still think the original Mk1 Golf GTI is *the* hot hatch and was of course what started it all off.

[PaddyPawsPetServices]

My little bro had a 206 GTi fell apart very quick, so bought a 205 Gti, its ancient but my god it cant shift! ( tho not right now, as its in Dads garage, and bro is on a boat somewhere in the Med with the RN )

[sirearl]

If only cars were just cars.?

Beauty of an older car is that it can be fixed without having half of IBM plugged into it.

2 year old as always the very best buy on the market.

global warming emmisions someone should mention this to BA and farmer Jones cows.

Earl

[wood1e2]

I am thinking of posting an e-petition against this idea. I have written this so far...anyone want to cast their eye over it, any suggestions to make it read better?

This to me is a stupid idea that the government is looking at offering £2000 to owners of old cars to buy new ones.

This may increase sales, but it will increase personal debt at high interest rates.

The only people this will help is an industry that over produces, over prices!! What other industry could do that and get away with it?

This idea is just good money after bad and in the long term will benefit no-one. Well apart from non-UK owned companies.

Because of this over production the cars being sold will already have been produced and so will not help the suppliers to the car industry.

New cars are not essential, as 2/3/4/5 year old or even older cars are efficient and clean, if you want to go down the environmental argument.

This solution has been successful in a country with low debt, so to introduce it here would be a nightmare. But we are heavily indebted and even more so if this ‘solution’ is implemented.

If people can afford a new car they will buy them, but most people now realize that to buy a product that instantly looses 30% of its value as soon as they drive of the forecourt with high servicing charges is not as good an idea as it used to be. A good quality second hand car with choice over where to service, is what people are looking for.


I am not the best writer in the world :)

[The Pines]

Awesome as it is the 205 I still think the original Mk1 Golf GTI is *the* hot hatch and was of course what started it all off.


Whilst I agree that the Mk1 GTI was best, it was preceeded by both the Vauxhall Chevette HSR and Talbot Sunbeam Lotus. Both had the advantage of being RWD too...

[wood1e2]

No help? Is that because it is badly written, or maybe I shouldn't do the petition?

[Rags]

No help? Is that because it is badly written, or maybe I shouldn't do the petition?

Your writing is fine - just do it!

[wood1e2]

yeah man...I'll just do it...lol

[boho]

Pity instead of wasting money on schemes to give people £2k for old wrecks they dont spend more time on actually introducing the means for people to run hydrogen powered vehicles whose only waste product is water! The Honda FCX Clarity is a stunning vehicle and clean and energy efficient to run, so why is it that no one gets off their bums and runs with installing the infrastucture for us to move to something less destructive? Even in Japan and the US (California) they are having to lease the cars because of how few places there are to fill up.

Seem even when we have better, greener ways staring us in the face we dont use them!

[Dawg]

See here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/10/car-scrappage-payments) for a comprehensive demolishing of this idea to subsidize car sellers.
Key points:


It's not at all green.


It won't be of major benefit to UK manufactures, (and therefore jobs).


It's just a variation on getting people to borrow money for things they don't need, or don't need at the moment. How many of the nationalized banks would make money out of providing loans/lease finance for new cars in this scheme?

I suppose a good European would not mind saving Peugeot, Citroen, BMW, VW and the rest....yes I know this ironic stance is protectionist and economically illiterate, but today I don't care..

[adventurelife]

Stupid idea full stop

However, why is there so many people on here who are in business buying cars anyway?

Leasing is much more cost effective!

[quikshop]

Leasing is much more cost effective!

Is it? The last time I looked the associated costs of repairing minor chips and scratches which is certain to happen over an extended lease period make it far more expensive.

If that's changed I'd be v.interested to see your figures, I'm a few weeks away from deciding on a company pool car.

[adventurelife]

Is it? The last time I looked the associated costs of repairing minor chips and scratches which is certain to happen over an extended lease period make it far more expensive.

If that's changed I'd be v.interested to see your figures, I'm a few weeks away from deciding on a company pool car.


I have been leasing for years, both my own , wife and several for the business as yet we have still to be charged anything at hand back time.

I do also buy vehicles but they are ones we know are going to get abused because of what we do so we buy those cheap.

The cost advantages of leasing over purchase your accountant should be explaining to you.

It appeals to me as I do not have huge amounts of cash tied up in depreciating assets, much better to fund through cash flow.

Also if you look at the depreciation over 2 years against the cash you will spend on the lease you will go lease. That is without taking into account the interest the money you will make on having that cash available to the business, if you add that factor in on any good business their is no way you would purchase.

A £40k vehicle costs me approx £10k over 2 years lease. £40k of cash flow free in my business makes serious £

Everyone to their own but I never tie up cash in assets unless those assets produce cash flow on a monthly basis that is higher than their cost by a serious margin.

[Chris Ashdown]

So will this money be available to only british built cars or do we subsidise the rest of the world as well

What % of cars sold in the UK are made in britain

[garyk]

I'd agree with above re: leasing although you have to be careful what you get. Audi and BMW have good residuals and this is reflected in the monthly commitment. Also as well new cars have longer service intervals so running costs are lower. Back in 2002 I leased a wrx subaru on a 3+23, cost me 265+VAT for a car with a 21k retail. Shortly after subaru dropped 3k off the list. 2 years down the line Ive paid out 7k when comparitive cars are fetching 10/11k, quids in. More recently the wife had a 120d m sport 56 plate on a 3+23, again about £300 p.m. managed to keep the car for 2 years without servicing (20k interval) or tyres (which were well borderline) and cost was less than trying to sell privately.

The only issue is if you want the extras, what they do is add the option cost and divide by the term so if its 2k for sat nav on a 3+23 its 2k/24 and if you have a few options it gets expensive quick!

[sirearl]

Stupid idea full stop

However, why is there so many people on here who are in business buying cars anyway?

Leasing is much more cost effective!

Did someone mention leasing.?

If you want a newish car all the time then leasing beats purchase hands down.Reason being the leased cars are obtained at a heavy discount not available to the general public.

Visit our site for more information. http://www.lingscars.com

Earl

[Barnie]

if it goes ahead then there may be a few problems

dealers increase prices

lower end of the second hand market prices go up

almost new or than end prices go down, in turn if a dealer has a load of second hand cars it could put them out of business


i wonder if there will be a minimum spend, there was a corsa new for £6k ish the other day, with the 2 k that would be 4k for a new corsa, i would live with that :)

[adventurelife]

Did someone mention leasing.?

If you want a newish car all the time then leasing beats purchase hands down.Reason being the leased cars are obtained at a heavy discount not available to the general public.

Visit our site for more information. http://www.lingscars.com

Earl

She will get a chance to quote around Oct when some of mine come up. Got to say though her prices are way out on her site against what is available in the market

Good to see you moving Lings site up the rankings though

Peter

[Burden]

I want one of these. New car for £2k. sounds nice.

[Burden]

I was looking at leasing but i only want a small car like a Corsa and leasing is way dearer than buying it and selling it on in 2 years... i dont really use a car much so no point in a big guzzler!

[adventurelife]

I was looking at leasing but i only want a small car like a Corsa and leasing is way dearer than buying it and selling it on in 2 years... i dont really use a car much so no point in a big guzzler!

Eh:) Have you run the numbers correctly?

Do you really think leasing is more expensive than buying then selling after two years? If you do I am afraid it is unlikely anyone on here who understands money will ever trade with you.

Peter

[boho]

Eh:) Have you run the numbers correctly?

Do you really think leasing is more expensive than buying then selling after two years? If you do I am afraid it is unlikely anyone on here who understands money will ever trade with you.

Peter

Blimey I think thats a bit uncalled for, I'm sure people who do business with i234i are looking for their music skills not their lease car appraisal abilities!

It probably depends on the age of the car, what car & potential resale value surely? Looking at Lings prices a Corsa for 2 years would cost c£4800, but currently Corsas second hand are holding a reasonable second hand value c£4800 up to £10k http://www.motors.co.uk/second-hand-Vauxhall-Corsa dependent on age/model/mileage, the smaller model cars are doing better in the 2nd hand car market at the moment with the small engine size and people not wanting expensive guzzlers so it is possible that buying and reselling a 2nd hand Corsa may not in itself be that bad a proposition.

It all depends on what the terms are of the lease contract, what costs you're responsible for v the same with buying a Corsa.

As you're more versed on lease cars perhaps you could give us a worked through lease/buy example so that i234i could make a more informed choice if you believe they are wrong in their assumptions?

[adventurelife]

Blimey I think thats a bit uncalled for, I'm sure people who do business with i234i are looking for their music skills not their lease car appraisal abilities!

It probably depends on the age of the car, what car & potential resale value surely? Looking at Lings prices a Corsa for 2 years would cost c£4800, but currently Corsas second hand are holding a reasonable second hand value c£4800 up to £10k http://www.motors.co.uk/second-hand-Vauxhall-Corsa dependent on age/model/mileage, the smaller model cars are doing better in the 2nd hand car market at the moment with the small engine size and people not wanting expensive guzzlers so it is possible that buying and reselling a 2nd hand Corsa may not in itself be that bad a proposition.

It all depends on what the terms are of the lease contract, what costs you're responsible for v the same with buying a Corsa.

As you're more versed on lease cars perhaps you could give us a worked through lease/buy example so that i234i could make a more informed choice if you believe they are wrong in their assumptions?

Sorry may be a bit blunt as it is late but I hate seeing people waste money

Without looking at that actual car

1. You buy with your own cash you are going to take 2 year depreciation which is that hardest 2 years ( i a am taking new purchase)
2. If you do not have the cash and you have borrowed you are paying interest even in these times it is 5-10%
3. Your business pays on a monthly basis that is tax deductible and 50-100% of the vat is depending on type of vehicle.
4. Several more reasons but I will cut to the chase as it is late, if you cannot make more money out of the money you are spending on a vehicle you should not be in business.

For example I have £40k, will I spend £40k on a vehicle and take a kicking or spend £400 a month from cash flow a month on a £40k vehicle and use the capital to reinvest in my business and get a return of 30-50% net on what I would have spent on a vehicle?

Rule no 1 in business , cashflow , cashflow , cashflow and spending hard earned money on depreciating assets compared with using the cash to earn more cash is well just daft:eek:

Peter

[boho]

I agree cashflow is important, but what about if its not used as a business expense? My car for example is personal expenditure only and I would not be looking to offset it against the business in any way - apart from purely Inland Revenue mileage rates, as an when thats chargeable for bits done.

If you were just Joe Bloggs in the market for a car and your £40k was your own cash, not business cash and wasn't going to be reinvested as you suggested then does this alter the picture for lease v buy?

I'm just playing devils advocate here as it were as I know nothing really about the lease car market, I dealt with contract hire vehicles many moons ago (1995) and at the time the amount of money being paid by people out under the car finance schemes we offered which were quite high APR never really seemed to stack up in terms of benefit.

Also is your company lease model based purely on the concept of the business having the readu cash? If the company had to borrow too then does leasing then become more expensive/same or still better than the option of purchasing.

Also if a car is treated as part of the business isn't your personal taxation higher because your earnings then include a taxable benefit?

[adventurelife]

I agree cashflow is important, but what about if its not used as a business expense? My car for example is personal expenditure only and I would not be looking to offset it against the business in any way - apart from purely Inland Revenue mileage rates, as an when thats chargeable for bits done.

If you were just Joe Bloggs in the market for a car and your £40k was your own cash, not business cash and wasn't going to be reinvested as you suggested then does this alter the picture for lease v buy?

I'm just playing devils advocate here as it were as I know nothing really about the lease car market, I dealt with contract hire vehicles many moons ago (1995) and at the time the amount of money being paid by people out under the car finance schemes we offered which were quite high APR never really seemed to stack up in terms of benefit.

Also is your company lease model based purely on the concept of the business having the readu cash? If the company had to borrow too then does leasing then become more expensive/same or still better than the option of purchasing.

Also if a car is treated as part of the business isn't your personal taxation higher because your earnings then include a taxable benefit?

Not sure on pros and cons if your car is just personal and nothing to do with the business. I would still lean towards lease personally as I cannot ever, ever think of a reason to have hard earned cash tied up in depreciating assets.

Car finance and lease are different

Leasing will virtually always be the best option for companies. If a company has to borrow then that means it needs cashflow so why would it spend capital in depreciating assets?

Your earnings do include a taxable benefit if you use the vehicle for any private use. I have several vans and 4x4 that are 100% business so no taxable benefit but if you use for personal use yes you do.

Even with this lease always stacks up if you are using new vehicles. Where it does not stack up is if you are happy to use 2nd hand vehicles

I will always come back to cashflow though. It is much better to have cash in the bank rather than tied up particulary at times like this when so many opportunities are available to use that cash to make more:)

[wood1e2]

If anyone else feels it is a stupid idea, then perhaps signing one of the three anti petitions would be a good idea. Mine hasn't got that many signatorie (boo hoo :) ), but this one has...http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/No-to-Scrappage/

Gordon and his knights of the apocalypse willl ride over us if we don't stand up!!!

Why give money to foreign car manufacturuers, and why can't the car industry help fund it????!!!

Rant over :)

[TestAPlug]

More info please I have just spent £25k on a brand new car and still have my 11 year old banger. £2500 would be brilliant in the current circumstances

[wood1e2]

If you are that skint why you spending 25k on a car, which is now only worth 20k!!!

The kick back is not yet being offered by the government, but if/when it comes in it will offer everyone who buys a new car or one year old car and only from main dealers, (not second hand car dealers, who might need it more!!!). Then you will recieve a sun of money (currently being touted as £2000), if you trade in your old car, which has to be 9 years old or older.

So basically it is another brilliant way pushing people further into debt to ignite and idustry that over produces and is 90% foreign owned!!!

[apeebles]

If you do need a new car and have an old one to trade in then I'd be very happy with the incentive to go green. In fact you could by an old banger and use it as your trade in if you did want the new car.

[Dawg]

If you do need a new car and have an old one to trade in then I'd be very happy with the incentive to go green. In fact you could by an old banger and use it as your trade in if you did want the new car.

It has nothing to do with an incentive to go green. That is mere greenwashing. It is to stimulate demand for cars, pure and simple.

[NCA]

If you do need a new car and have an old one to trade in then I'd be very happy with the incentive to go green. In fact you could by an old banger and use it as your trade in if you did want the new car.

How is it an incentive to go green? Nothing I have seen indicates that there is any restriction on what car you can buy. I could trade in a 15 year old 1 litre Nissan Micra for a Chevrolet Corvette C6 with a 6.2 litre engine or a Benltey GT with a 6 litre engine.

[wood1e2]

Quote:
Originally Posted by apeebles http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=846560#post846560)
If you do need a new car and have an old one to trade in then I'd be very happy with the incentive to go green. In fact you could by an old banger and use it as your trade in if you did want the new car.

How is it an incentive to go green? Nothing I have seen indicates that there is any restriction on what car you can buy. I could trade in a 15 year old 1 litre Nissan Micra for a Chevrolet Corvette C6 with a 6.2 litre engine or a Benltey GT with a 6 litre engine.


Exactly it has nothing to do with going green, new cars are a huge waste of green points...stick with old cars and you keep the carbon foot print down.

This is purely:

1) To get the market of over produced, over priced products (cars) moving.
2) To get us to bail the government out of their complete cock ups, by getting the great and the good to buy the government out of recession.
3) Keep the great and the good in debt as far as possible to control!!

Point 3 is far fetched, but why should individuals get into greater debt to bail out corporate government.

Does this not create the start of a new boom and bust?

[mike1337]

I swear they said £2500? Still, the average people own cars for about 3-4 years, its impossible to run a car of 9 - 10 years old.. think about the repair and maintainance costs!

Not if it's a VW :)

[wood1e2]

Originally Posted by inspiremydesign http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=813032#post813032)
I swear they said £2500? Still, the average people own cars for about 3-4 years, its impossible to run a car of 9 - 10 years old.. think about the repair and maintainance costs!


Or a F reg Peugeot 205GRD :) Have had some repair bills but nothing in the last 3 years.

It is purely marketing that makes us all think we need something new, it has more to do with wants rather than needs.. :)

[adam]

They built thousands of extra cars in an uncontrolled manner and spent millions convincing us they are more fuel efficient. With the odd exception, this is rubbish. I have had old cars getting 35-40 to the gallon that would noe be 15 years old!

Bigger engines, more electronics to carry around...

If the industry is broke, let them go broke, sell the cars off for a few grand each and then we don't need a subsidy plus there are years worth of supply held in stock so we keep people in business supplying the cars for years and by the we can build an economy on real value.

[wood1e2]

Well it is too late...looks like Mandy and the boys are going to introduce the scheme!!!

Yet something else that will slip onto the British public, mind you the public seem to be sleeping and enjoying the Blair/Brown years, so maybe I should give up pointing out the stupidity of their governance!!!

Ok lets move on and get more personal debt, line me up for a foreign made, foreign tax contributions and foreign pensions...!!!!

[leemason]

If the Government are really committed to "Green Issues" then they should encourage people to keep their old cars and put money into converting existing cars to more environmentally sustainable fuels and greater fuel economy. I remember that Perkins Diesel came out with an engine a few years ago that they claims would provide 100mpg and a top speed of 100mph (for a small family saloon car).

[quikshop]

So how does this £5k towards an electric car idea work?

The only electric cars in or pending production have a range of around 40 miles, and there are no charging locations outside of central London.

This Government keep on throwing out the gimics without any thought or substance.

[leemason]

So how does this £5k towards an electric car idea work?

The only electric cars in or pending production have a range of around 40 miles, and there are no charging locations outside of central London.

This Government keep on throwing out the gimics without any thought or substance.

I am sure that the technology for electric cars will improve but in that case they would be better to offer the £5K toward converting existing vehicles to electric. Maybe they could start with all ministerial cars (starting with Gordon Brown's).

[UKSBD]

What annoys me is the fact my wifes 51 plate Yarris, which has been
regularly serviced, has less than 35k miles on the clock, is in imaculate
condition is worth no more than the neigbours tatty old rust bucket which
has been thrashed to death and probably done close to 200k miles.


just had a thought:
Does anyone know if the £2k is on top of the trade in price?

[Nickdavis87]

just had a thought:
Does anyone know if the £2k is on top of the trade in price?

You don't trade it in, you scrap it and provide the proof when you buy, no trade ins involved sadly.

[wood1e2]

You supply proof ownership of the car for x number of months, then the main dealer will deal with the scrappage.

[wood1e2]

What annoys me is the fact my wifes 51 plate Yarris, which has been
regularly serviced, has less than 35k miles on the clock, is in imaculate
condition is worth no more than the neigbours tatty old rust bucket which
has been thrashed to death and probably done close to 200k miles.


just had a thought:
Does anyone know if the £2k is on top of the trade in price?


At least the rust bucket is environmentally friendlier than your wifes Yaris :) Well unless it is a huge gas-gussler!! :)

[Matt1959]

me being cynical says that if you get an allowance of £2K off the purchase price, how competitve is the purchase price? For example there may be prices just for this type of trade in and if you bought the car another way you'd get it 1K cheaper. This means the trade in is worth £1k not £2K. Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier, I've not trawled the thread.

no such thing as a free lunch and all that.......

[wood1e2]

And Citroen were advertising £2000 off, for scrappage and the government have not even confirmed that the scheme will come into force!!!

Plus Ford increased their prices earlier this year/late last year!!

[CarCare Direct]

The timing sucks. Ford and vauxhall have increased prices on Mondeo and Insignia by over £2000 already this year. Your 9 year old Mondeo with 80k has a p/ex value of c £400 so compared to january the balance to change is likely to be £400 more expensive than then.
It makes more sense if your are looking to chnage to trade the car in for a 3 year old car than to take the scheme up.
I'm in favour of supporting the automotive sector, and will confess I am making plans to benefit my company's new cars sales if/when the green light is given but it doesn't mean I think it makes economic or environmental sense
cool bananas

[leemason]

What they give with one hand they take away with the other!