How Much Is SEO?

[Ali-v-8]

How much does seo cost?

In a conversation on another post I commented on how much I charged a client for dealing with his SEO. ( reaction was uncomplimentary)
I am interested as to what people think seo should cost.
I also think people need to realise that SEO is a number of things.
I think for the sake of simplicity it would be time for an analogy.

if you buy a ford focus you are buying a functioning car. ( a website)
If you buy a ford focus ST you are buying a functioning car that will get you there faster. ( A website with tags and titles put in place will get better and ranking quicker)

If you uprated the suspension, tinker with the engine to improve performance and improve looks by adding a body kit and spoilers also a better sound system, you have in effect optimised that vehicle. The result is that you get from A to B faster and more and more people notice you.
(this is what we charge you for)


I hope this make sense so far.

So what are you paying for when you sign up with an SEO firm?

You give an seo a website fine tuned and pimped so to say.
This gets you to the top of Google faster and more people will look at your website. Also it is our job to Identify issues with the website that visitors face and improve the conversion and lower the bounce rate.

The question that you should be asking is - How much am i willing to invest into my own business to secure it future?

Regards
Ali

[nickie1105]

I am not a web designer or an SEO expert although I have had my eyes opened recently to both. Until this time last year I had no idea that the was any difference between SEO, web design and web developers! All are disciplines in their own right and I think people are still naive in thinking that the above are one in the same thing and fail to factor in extra costs for the different expertees needed to get their site to do what they want it to do and get it ranked where they want it! I think naivety is the problem and if the client knows nothing about SEO and the efforts and time it takes, the costs can come as a shock!

[SFD]

Yes but some people say they are selling you a 3L twin turbo, then when it arrives and you pop the bonnet you see it's only a 1.6l and the head gasket is on the way out.

[greenbox]

i would also be interested to hear how much people are charging for SEO.

i had a salesman trying to flog me seo for £500 a month , is that alot ?

what are people generally charging ?

[Ali-v-8]

Yes but some people say they are selling you a 3L twin turbo, then when it arrives and you pop the bonnet you see it's only a 1.6l and the head gasket is on the way out.

You on about a nissan 300zx with a 100nx engine in it.:D

The point is knowledge is power. The information that an SEO knows about how Google works is only a percentage of the work.
I think people need to look into what they are getting for he money they spend.
Please be aware I hate companies that advertise SEO for £99.
Its the same as buying a YUGO (for those of you who don't know it was a car(or a feeble attempt at a car))
Car dont exist no more

[Vizcom]

Depends on the website, competition and what I feel the site needs. As a guide we would charge £2000 - £3000 for the year. May sound a lot but there is a lot of work involved, changes to the website, re-writing copy, article writing and submission, link building, new web pages added, review, monitor statistics, adjust site, paid directories, etc. This always works best when a client has an eCommerce website or a high value product or service. Best to ask the SEO company exactly what they intend to do, proof of work done and what other results have they achieved? Ask for references, same business rules apply to choosing an SEO as any other supplier. Most important of all (in my opinion) how does their website rank?

[nickie1105]

To me, nothing can be guaranteed with SEO, for example, you couldn't promise a client that you will have them appearing in the first 3 organic listings within X amount of time. Various factors including changes in Google's algorythms affect the SERPs so nothing is for certain in this game. However, it does need keeping on top of and is not something which can just be done and left alone. £500 does seem a little steep to me though but again, it depends what the company are doing for their money and what tactics they're using to drive targeted traffic to your website.

[andymayhem]

SEOMOZ quotes lowend $500pm - $2000pm - $20000+pm for link building. but its all relative, if your fighting against other sites where the top site has an income of £10kpm then £500pm for the skill and time of getting there is a little too cheap and the same is also true with SEO for a site for a local plumber who might make an extra £1k pa its not worth £500pm to him.

This about it as ROI as it is basically a form of advertising. think about how much money you will make from being on the front page, if the answer is £10kpa then even £9.9k still sees a return on investment.

[SFD]

Depends on the website, competition and what I feel the site needs. As a guide we would charge £2000 - £3000 for the year.

IMO this is the problem.

Someone says it depends on the website then gives a quote!

Surely the competition and the keywords + how the site is already set up make a massive difference to cost.

[andymayhem]

IMO this is the problem.

Someone says it depends on the website then gives a quote!

Surely the competition and the keywords + how the site is already set up make a massive difference to cost.

exactly. to get a PR8 site into a niche that requires PR9 sites will be crazy hard, you might need another 500k links.

I have been doing a lot of research and the average seems to be at £1.5k pm. but personally, I am planning on telling the client what is required, the STD industry rate and let them decide what they feel is a fair price.

[Ali-v-8]

I agree, nothing is guaranteed through SEO!

This has been approached in another thread.
If you didn't read it here's a quick summary.
positions on Google cannot ( more like should not)be guaranteed.
The level of service provided can be guaranteed but this is between you and the seo.

If they offer you a guarantee, What do they guarantee.

[OldWelshGuy]

Yep, #1 spot or pay nothing (for a mutually agreed word) is a GREAT guarantee!

The downside of that is that they are going to be focussing on that micro measure to allow them to get paid, rather than doing a pro job on everything.

[SEO-Doctor]

exactly. to get a PR8 site into a niche that requires PR9 sites will be crazy hard, you might need another 500k links.

I have been doing a lot of research and the average seems to be at £1.5k pm. but personally, I am planning on telling the client what is required, the STD industry rate and let them decide what they feel is a fair price.

For what though...how many links per month? how many hours per month?

[Ali-v-8]

For what though...how many links per month? how many hours per month?

This is exactly what I mean.

Straight away you ask how many links?
Why?
He said he is charging for seo.
If I can get a website to page one in Google with three links, why would i put 10 on to a website?
Links from external sources help, but if your website isn't up to standard then they are relatively useless.

Cost for SEO as a package of result and conversions. Not just how many links are added.

[sirearl]

Ok gloves off I won't work on a site that does not produce me at least 12k a year.

But before all the oohs and are's

I would not work on a site that I did not think would benefit by my work to the tune of several times my cost.

Product and the value of the goods sold per year is what its all about.

Earl

[andymayhem]

hours and links are irrelevant, your paying for results i.e. ROI which is the measure of all marketing/advertising.

[sirearl]

I agree, nothing is guaranteed through SEO!

That is profoundly untrue.

Earl

[OldWelshGuy]

For what though...how many links per month? how many hours per month?

If you take your car to the garage to get the brakes changed, they quote you £50 to change the brake pads. Do you say to them 'how many hours will you be working on my car?' or do you ask them 'how long will it take?

If they say about an hour, then would you expect to pay £37.50 if they did the job in 45 minutes? would you demand they used the rest of the hour doing other things on your car?

IF they went over by 30 minutes, would you be happy paying £75, OR (more likely) would you say NO CHANCE MATE you quoted £50 if it takes you longer that is YOUR problem not mine :)

SEO's have bespoke software written for them to replace the manual work they did previously. This software runs in the background while the SEO is free to carry out other work, or it speeds up a task 100 fold. so what someone manually doing it would take 10 hours, the SEO can achieve that in 6 minutes. Should you expect only to pay him 6 minutes, and disregard the cost of the software investment.

A person who is very good at their job will carry out a task far FAR quicker than someone less experienced.

How many people when they get a quote for a website ask 'how many hous will you be spending on building my site?

My point is that it is irrelevant, and we have to be careful not to get bogged down in reporting at the cost of doing the work :)

[JustOneUK]

How much does seo cost?

In a conversation on another post I commented on how much I charged a client for dealing with his SEO. ( reaction was uncomplimentary)
I am interested as to what people think seo should cost.
I also think people need to realise that SEO is a number of things.
I think for the sake of simplicity it would be time for an analogy.

if you buy a ford focus you are buying a functioning car. ( a website)
If you buy a ford focus ST you are buying a functioning car that will get you there faster. ( A website with tags and titles put in place will get better and ranking quicker)

If you uprated the suspension, tinker with the engine to improve performance and improve looks by adding a body kit and spoilers also a better sound system, you have in effect optimised that vehicle. The result is that you get from A to B faster and more and more people notice you.
(this is what we charge you for)

I hope this make sense so far.

With regards to your analogy - it depends if you're happy with a Ford Focus :cool:

I guess if you own a Ford Focus and needed it servicing (SEO'd) then you'd be looking to pay less than if you were having a Ferrari serviced. :)

[sirearl]

on the ball OWG.

my terms and conditions are very similar to another group beloved by society.

http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/about/instructingabarrister/fees/

and a touch more about people who produce zero.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article4727832.ece

Earl

[OldWelshGuy]

Why don't we just jail everyone without trial, then deal only with the appeals and give compensation where due?. It would be a lot cheaper :D

[OldWelshGuy]

they don't get it do they?

i have some great software that will run off with a couple of footprints and some keywords, search the search engines, and find me all the top ranking pages where I can add links to.

others will pull all the links and tell me who owns them and if there is a patter,
others will tell me if they are blogs, directories etc.

I should work for m%.85 per hour (or whatever minimum wages is these days .

THEy want to earn 10 times as much, but only want to pay a few quid to the guy that makes it happen, and DEMAND to know how many links they get, and how many hours of your time they are getting.

These are EXACTLY the sort of idiots I refuse to work with :D

[sirearl]

they don't get it do they?

i have some great software that will run off with a couple of footprints and some keywords, search the search engines, and find me all the top ranking pages where I can add links to.

others will pull all the links and tell me who owns them and if there is a patter,
others will tell me if they are blogs, directories etc.

I should work for m%.85 per hour (or whatever minimum wages is these days .

THEy want to earn 10 times as much, but only want to pay a few quid to the guy that makes it happen, and DEMAND to know how many links they get, and how many hours of your time they are getting.

These are EXACTLY the sort of idiots I refuse to work with :D

Are you sure your worth the minimum wage.?:D

I think part of the problem is that few people seem to realise how crucial SEO /SEM is to the success of any online business and tend to think of it as a service you have done ,like getting the house painted.:):|

without being on page 1 in general a business is going no where.

And an SEO might be competing against tens of millions of other site's than want to be there.

And as has been said as a pro we can do things at lightening speed compared to your average Joe, because we spent many years learning how to.and I would be only to happy to charge an hourly rate based on your average joe.:D:rolleyes:

Earl

[OldWelshGuy]

It is nuts isn't it though how some people want to know macro detail. YES you have to give reports etc, but how can you tell someone how many links you need without knowing what the opposition is?

Do people who want this demand to know the procedure a mechanic will use when rebuilding their engine?

Do they demand to know each step the designer will take to build a site/

Do they demand to know the name fo the sheep that made the wool, the name of the Machinist who spun the wool, the name of the girl who knitted the clothes, the type of machine it was knitted on, the name of the carrier etc..

Do they hell, they tell the supplier I want this product at that price, and as long as they get it they are happy.

The whole issue is one of trust I think. And once achieved, often people think (
" I can't see any different, I have not had my moneys worth'. Intangibles are a bugger.

[sirearl]

The whole issue is one of trust I think. And once achieved, often people think (
" I can't see any different, I have not had my moneys worth'. Intangibles are a bugger.

Exactly often the site does not look any different ,except for the titles and the tags.

I often warn people that after I have done a site they may think" well that was easy .I could have done that in a couple of hours"

Except they would not know what to do, nor have done maybe the hundreds of hours research to get to the point where pen is put to paper.:)

Earl

[Tej]

Exactly often the site does not look any different ,except for the titles and the tags.

I often warn people that after I have done a site they may think" well that was easy .I could have done that in a couple of hours"

Except they would not know what to do, nor have done maybe the hundreds of hours research to get to the point where pen is put to paper.:)

Earl

I think this goes for any business. How often someone uses a simple machinery part to solve a problem.. part costs £2.. but work is charged at £500. Its not the value of the part per se.. but knowing from all the experience and previous hard graft as to what and how to use that part that... is worth £500. Customer should be happy that job has been done to satisfaction!

my 2 cents.. hope it makes sense

[Ali-v-8]

With regards to your analogy - it depends if you're happy with a Ford Focus :cool:

I guess if you own a Ford Focus and needed it servicing (SEO'd) then you'd be looking to pay less than if you were having a Ferrari serviced. :)

See this is exactly my point.
Each website is not the same.

And to also stick to with the analogy some cars you can T-cut others you cant (metallic paint). For these type of car you use a gloss resin add on (don't ask how I know this). Take this as a flash website. You have to add the content as readable pages.

Point to be made here if you had to add content and create pages would the same charge apply.

[Ali-v-8]

i would also be interested to hear how much people are charging for SEO.

i had a salesman trying to flog me seo for £500 a month , is that alot ?

what are people generally charging ?

no its not depending on the industry you are in

[barginboyrob]

I know loads of people that work based on results, get paid after rankings achevied

[Ali-v-8]

I know loads of people that work based on results, get paid after rankings achevied

I'm sorry but performance is a different subject. What I want to clarify is actual cost.
Example

Limo company based in Blackburn = 20 key terms £2,000
limo Blackburn, limousine Blackburn limo hire Blackburn... etc.

limo company based in London = 20 key terms £3,500
limo London, limousine london, limo hire London... etc.

limo company national = 20 key terms £6-8,000
limousine, limo, limo hire, hire limo, limousine company..... etc.

Same industry, different capture.
Cost between London and Blackburn varies because of competition.
A national campaign covers the whole of the UK and key cities, so in effect London, Blackburn, Manchester and the rest would have to be covered.
As I have always said, the campaign determines the price not just the service.

[barginboyrob]

huh, well obviously you agree to the terms with them first...

[sirearl]

I'm sorry but performance is a different subject. What I want to clarify is actual cost.
Example

Limo company based in Blackburn = 20 key terms £2,000
limo Blackburn, limousine Blackburn limo hire Blackburn... etc.

limo company based in London = 20 key terms £3,500
limo London, limousine london, limo hire London... etc.

limo company national = 20 key terms £6-8,000
limousine, limo, limo hire, hire limo, limousine company..... etc.

Same industry, different capture.
Cost between London and Blackburn varies because of competition.
A national campaign covers the whole of the UK and key cities, so in effect London, Blackburn, Manchester and the rest would have to be covered.
As I have always said, the campaign determines the price not just the service.

Is that a one off flat fee.?

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

Is that a one off flat fee.?

Earl

I know, I'm just too kind:D, but yes in some cases the result are easy to obtain. and I do prefer up front payments for easy results.
i have 3 payments that i only offer depending on industry and company i am dealing with.

New websites require on going developement + retainer plus on going monthly DD's
Wesite need of developement. choose key terms (usually 20) take 50% of total payment upfront then the outstanding balance isn't requested until page one is achieved.
And my favourite. All up front. ONE TIME JUICY PAYMENT.

[sirearl]

I just see a huge difference in these 2 placings which is not reflected in your charges.?

Limo company based in Blackburn = 20 key terms £2,000
limo Blackburn, limousine Blackburn limo hire Blackburn... etc.


limo company national = 20 key terms £6-8,000
limousine, limo, limo hire, hire limo, limousine company....


Earl

[Ali-v-8]

I just see a huge difference in these 2 placings which is not reflected in your charges.?

Limo company based in Blackburn = 20 key terms £2,000
limo Blackburn, limousine Blackburn limo hire Blackburn... etc.


limo company national = 20 key terms £6-8,000
limousine, limo, limo hire, hire limo, limousine company....


Earl

I see where you are coming from.
I already have acheied page one for quite a few limo companies (27)
But in all fairness i think £8k is more than fair.
If the person wants to expand on the original 20 terms than that is an extra

[david8765]

you cant put a figure on SEO, you can spend as much or as little as you like.

[G. Lasagne]

How much for a website where they are already near the top of the front page for all the right keywords, but want to increase traffic and conversions?
and how much does a good ppc campaign cost to manage?
I pay £49 per month and to be honest i am very happy with the service so far, that includes link building onsite optimisation, adding pages etc and so on.

[BreezeMedia]

you cant put a figure on SEO, you can spend as much or as little as you like.

Couldn't agree more!

Case in point

We charge X for a client on phrase "blue widgets" and rank them #1 Another "big" SEO company charges their client 3 x X for the same phrase "blue widgets" and they rank 14. We found this out when their client called us asking about our rates.

However, it was the same company who are paying 3x more that came to us initially that went with the big company - their choice to pay more for the same service. Understanadbly they're rather miffed.

SEO is only one part of the big picture. You can lead a horse to water....etc

We never offer SEO on it's own. We only offer a fully structured package that includes marketing and all analysis on conversions, cpas, ROI. We set breakpoints and measure our performance againts results. If we perform the client is happy and we get more work from referrals.

[sirearl]

How much for a website where they are already near the top of the front page for all the right keywords, but want to increase traffic and conversions?
and how much does a good ppc campaign cost to manage?
I pay £49 per month and to be honest i am very happy with the service so far, that includes link building onsite optimisation, adding pages etc and so on.

well for me the level depends on many factors.

difficulty / competition.

potential value to a company of my services.

I.E I have built companies into multi million pound international business's from being local suppliers.

Now not only is there turnover increased 10 fold but the value of there website has increased dramatically if they wished to sell it.

So for me charges are very much related to the real time value my services provide.

I think maybe its time other SEO's woke up to the true value there services can bring to an online company and be more prepared to ask for a share of the profits generated by there work.

Hence why I was a bit taken aback by "limo" nationwide for 8k .When the yearly turnover from having these keywords should be quite substantial and ongoing.

I think its time both the public and SEO's realised that SEO's can usually do more for a business than the owner of an online business ever could.

Earl

[BreezeMedia]

1.charges are very much related to the real time value my services provide.

2. I think maybe its time other SEO's woke up to the true value there services can bring to an online company and be more prepared to ask for a share of the profits generated by there work.

3. Hence why I was a bit taken aback by "limo" nationwide for 8k .When the yearly turnover from having these keywords should be quite substantial and ongoing.

4.I think its time both the public and SEO's realised that SEO's can usually do more for a business than the owner of an online business ever could.

Earl

I like this man!

1. As ar ours
2. Agreed totally
3. I was taken aback by this figure too! 8K? What's the ROI for the limo company?
4. Agreed totally.

To add to this - IMO SEOs should be regulated. Too many are charging ridiculous fees and hiding behind "rank" to the detriment of the client.

[andymayhem]

I am wondering what you guys believe is an acceptable ROI, what do you aim for?

[sirearl]

I am wondering what you guys believe is an acceptable ROI, what do you aim for?

Well there is no standard as to many variables.

Product being the main one followed by competition.

Selling 500k houses is a very different area to selling babies nappies.:)

But I would say from my experience that a 50% increase would be a minimum up to any number you can think of.

All depends where the business is at, and what the product is.

Earl

[OldWelshGuy]

Try explaining to a client that traffic might go down after the work is completed! Sales will be up, average order will be up, profitability will be up, but traffic might intially take a dive, as what we will do is dump the junk traffic and replace it with highly qualified traffic.

[Ali-v-8]

Try explaining to a client that traffic might go down after the work is completed! Sales will be up, average order will be up, profitability will be up, but traffic might intially take a dive, as what we will do is dump the junk traffic and replace it with highly qualified traffic.

What ever profit that the client makes is really no concern of mine (unless it was not cost effective)
In my costing i would promote the site to the top of the pages.
I would help increase conversions.

I wouldn't charge more because they are making more.
Its the client who is in effect risking a substantial amount of money in his business by paying us for seo

[BreezeMedia]

as what we will do is dump the junk traffic and replace it with highly qualified traffic.

You're going to "dump" a clients traffic???

How do you know it's junk traffic? How do you know that the person sitting at the computer is not going to buy? How do you know that that same person might have a friend who is interested.Tell a friend etc.?

Dump traffic - no way. Add to, focus and enhance - totally.

[Ali-v-8]

You're going to "dump" a clients traffic???

How do you know it's junk traffic? How do you know that the person sitting at the computer is not going to buy? How do you know that that same person might have a friend who is interested.Tell a friend etc.?

Dump traffic - no way. Add to, focus and enhance - totally.

sometimes you need to switch focus

[sirearl]

What ever profit that the client makes is really no concern of mine (unless it was not cost effective)
In my costing i would promote the site to the top of the pages.
I would help increase conversions.

I wouldn't charge more because they are making more.
Its the client who is in effect risking a substantial amount of money in his business by paying us for seo

I would give that serious consideration.

What if because of your endevours the client makes an extra 10 million a year.

You would be happy to accept a few grand .?

Realise SEO is one of the great wealth creators of our time.:)

And remember that whatever business your client is involved in .

In most cases you can replicate it and beat them hollow.:rolleyes:

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

I would give that serious consideration.

What if because of your endevours the client makes an extra 10 million a year.

You would be happy to accept a few grand .?

Realise SEO is one of the great wealth creators of our time.:)

And remember that whatever business your client is involved in .

In most cases you can replicate it and beat them hollow.:rolleyes:

Earl

bonus factors do come into play.

I have had a client send me extra £5k for his project (£20k original payment)
That was a goodwill gesture on his behalf (i'm not an idiot i bit his hand off)
But that is there choice to share the wealth if the benefit.

And to answer the first part, if he did make millions I would be glad it was because of me and hope (as many of my clients do) that he would refer more business my way.

[sirearl]

bonus factors do come into play.

I have had a client send me extra £5k for his project (£20k original payment)
That was a goodwill gesture on his behalf (i'm not an idiot i bit his hand off)
But that is there choice to share the wealth if the benefit.

And to answer the first part, if he did make millions I would be glad it was because of me and hope (as many of my clients do) that he would refer more business my way.

Nice to find someone who gets satisfaction from making other people rich.:D

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

Nice to find someone who gets satisfaction from making other people rich.:D

Earl

Hey I get rich too.
If you are fair you'll be surprised what client give you as gifts.
Only recently a client sent me a case of Cristal
6 bottle average price about £160 a bottle
I think i do get my perks.

[sirearl]

Hey I get rich too.
If you are fair you'll be surprised what client give you as gifts.
Only recently a client sent me a case of Cristal
6 bottle average price about £160 a bottle
I think i do get my perks.

Whatever.:rolleyes:

Computer says No.:p

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

Whatever.:rolleyes:

Computer says No.:p

Earl


Why?

Like i said i make money, client makes money every ones a winner.
client makes more than usual then it was the client who risked his cash not mine.

[sirearl]

Why?

Like i said i make money, client makes money every ones a winner.
client makes more than usual then it was the client who risked his cash not mine.

Time is more valuable than money.:)

Earl

[OldWelshGuy]

You're going to "dump" a clients traffic???

How do you know it's junk traffic? How do you know that the person sitting at the computer is not going to buy? How do you know that that same person might have a friend who is interested.Tell a friend etc.?

Dump traffic - no way. Add to, focus and enhance - totally.

I honestly don't know how to respond to this as it doesn't make sense, as you are chastising my comments, then agreeing with them?.

If a client has 5 pages of 4000 words a page, and they are getting traffic for all sorts of TOTALLY UNRELATED PHRASES because their content is unfocussed, and their linking pattern is taking them off topic, how can it be a bad thing to lose that traffic?

Once the site is split into more pages with a tighter focus on phrases for each page, then the traffic might well take a dip as the search engines get to grip with the new site content etc. BUT, once this has been spidered and indexed then the quality traffic starts coming in. Traffic that will convert better than the old one, traffic that is more focused for their aim.

I will answer the question you put though.

How do you know it's junk traffic?
because the phrases are totally unrelated eg. a company sells specs, but are getting visitors looking for drinking glasses!

How do you know that the person sitting at the computer is not going to buy?
because they don't sell drinking glasses, they sell eye glasses.

How do you know that that same person might have a friend who is interested.Tell a friend etc
In fairness, we don't, but you can't build a business that relies on someone searching for drinking glasses that lands on a site that sells spectacles, and having a friend who might need specatcles. The market is too small :)

When I say 'junk' I mean junk, as in totally unrelated.

[OldWelshGuy]

What ever profit that the client makes is really no concern of mine (unless it was not cost effective)
In my costing i would promote the site to the top of the pages.
I would help increase conversions.

I wouldn't charge more because they are making more.
Its the client who is in effect risking a substantial amount of money in his business by paying us for seo

Please show me where I suggested that? I assume you have misread my post.

[Ali-v-8]

Please show me where I suggested that? I assume you have misread my post.

Sorry , but it wasn't your comment that I was commenting on but the reaction that SirEarl and breezemdia had to my costing for Limos.:)

It was a comment in regards to how much a client makes from our services.

[sirearl]

Please show me where I suggested that? I assume you have misread my post.

Originally Posted by Ali-v-8 http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=812533#post812533)
What ever profit that the client makes is really no concern of mine (unless it was not cost effective)
In my costing i would promote the site to the top of the pages.
I would help increase conversions.

I wouldn't charge more because they are making more.
Its the client who is in effect risking a substantial amount of money in his business by paying us for seo.


What are you mentaly defectives .:p

What risk to the clients money.? ,unless you don't know what your doing of course.:D

Or choose the wrong project to work on.

You don't seriously think Saatchi and saactchi charge the same rate to Greasy Joe's cafe as they do to British airways.

Get with it children and realise your worth.:|

£160 bottles of plonk ain't going to buy me off .Strewth give us strength.:rolleyes:

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

Originally Posted by Ali-v-8 http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=812533#post812533)
What ever profit that the client makes is really no concern of mine (unless it was not cost effective)
In my costing i would promote the site to the top of the pages.
I would help increase conversions.

I wouldn't charge more because they are making more.
Its the client who is in effect risking a substantial amount of money in his business by paying us for seo.


What are you mentaly defectives .:p

What risk to the clients money.? ,unless you don't know what your doing of course.:D

Or choose the wrong project to work on.

You don't seriously think Saatchi and saactchi charge the same rate to Greasy Joe's cafe as they do to British airways.

Get with it children and realise your worth.:|

£160 bottles of plonk ain't going to buy me off .Strewth give us strength.:rolleyes:

Earl


Ha HA Ha:p

I'm not going to add on extra money Because the client is doing well.
If a client agrees a price with me then I am happy with that.
If the following 12 month requires more work, I look at how much work was carried out and predict the work load this would require.
Then quote accordingly.
Bonus's can be written into a contract.

[OldWelshGuy]

Sorry , but it wasn't your comment that I was commenting on but the reaction that SirEarl and breezemdia had to my costing for Limos.:)

It was a comment in regards to how much a client makes from our services.

No probs, I thought I was having a blonde moment (which is tough for a baldy) :D

[OldWelshGuy]

If someone has a 5 page site and wants to be number 1 for dog grooming parlour backendofnowhere, then we are talking a LOT less than 'dog grooming parlour London' stands to reason the cost will be different.

Doesn't it?

[Ali-v-8]

No probs, I thought I was having a blonde moment (which is tough for a baldy) :D

quite understandable
Reading back, I mistakenly quoted you instead.:redface:
A million apologise oh great bold one:D

[sirearl]

Ha HA Ha:p

I'm not going to add on extra money Because the client is doing well.
If a client agrees a price with me then I am happy with that.
If the following 12 month requires more work, I look at how much work was carried out and predict the work load this would require.
Then quote accordingly.
Bonus's can be written into a contract.

Ok will you SEO a site for me that will give me an income of 10 million a year.?

I will of course pay you real well,lets say 20k.?

I think your missing the point there.

an SEO can increase a business's profit many times over.

So who was it that built the bussines.?

The original owner or the SEO.?

Earl

[ADW]

I love it when you SEO guys go off on one......nearly as entertaining as the Logo designers!:D

[Ali-v-8]

If someone has a 5 page site and wants to be number 1 for dog grooming parlour backendofnowhere, then we are talking a LOT less than 'dog grooming parlour London' stands to reason the cost will be different.

Doesn't it?

Yes it does:D
I think we are finally getting there.

What I have noticed, (and this is my OPINION) is that the bad seo companies set fixed priced seo.
I feel that this is impossible.
Every campaign MUST be bespoke.

AnALIgy time (he he):p

£200 for a brick wall. Would you buy it if you needed a brick wall?

What if the wall is too short?
What if the house is sandstone and the wall is red brick?

Now here's what i find happens.
What if you need a 5ft wall and the wall on offer is 4ft?
Obviously no one wants to loose money.
They then will add on costs for the extra. (usually after half the wall is built)
When the client realises it ain't such a bargain they are contractually tied.:eek:

[Ali-v-8]

Ok will you SEO a site for me that will give me an income of 10 million a year.?

I will of course pay you real well,lets say 20k.?

I think your missing the point there.

an SEO can increase a business's profit many times over.

So who was it that built the bussines.?

The original owner or the SEO.?

Earl

When taking on an SEO, I feel that the owner is taking a step forward for his business and ultimately it is his business and HIS decisions that make or break his business)

Yes I do take credit where credit is due. But I will say 95% of business owners do reciprocate for my help.
Why only 95% you may ask? Well I blame murphys law.
Regardless of how great the campaign is some idiotic business men always try to con seo's into believing that they have no improvement.
We have stats. We can see what visitors do.

Sorry but i put it all on the owner.

We're just a stepping stone to their success.

The clever ones build there businesses on our advise.

[sirearl]

When taking on an SEO, I feel that the owner is taking a step forward for his business and ultimately it is his business and HIS decisions that make or break his business)

Yes I do take credit where credit is due. But I will say 95% of business owners do reciprocate for my help.
Why only 95% you may ask? Well I blame murphys law.
Regardless of how great the campaign is some idiotic business men always try to con seo's into believing that they have no improvement.
We have stats. We can see what visitors do.

Sorry but i put it all on the owner.

We're just a stepping stone to their success.

The clever ones build there businesses on our advise.

A bleeding great stepping stone.:D

A clever SEO builds his business on his own advice.:rolleyes:

Or do you love SEO so much that you want to do it the rest of your life.:|

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

A bleeding great stepping stone.:D

A clever SEO builds his business on his own advice.:rolleyes:

Or do you love SEO so much that you want to do it the rest of your life.:|

Earl

I'm 36 single with 2 children 11 and 12.
I've been doing web marketing since end of 2000.
Since then I purchase 12 houses with my earnings 9 of which I rent out.
I spend as much of my free time as possible with my kids.
If it means I have to do this for the rest of my life to give them what the need then so be it, but I'm looking to retire when I hit 50.

In fact if my new technique kicks in well then maybe i'll retire at 45.:D

[SFD]

You SEO's and your willy waving, what are you like!

[OldWelshGuy]

I have 1 child, 15 houses and 1 hotel.

But my daughter has a hotel on Mayfair and i am worried I might land on it.

[Ali-v-8]

You SEO's and your willy waving, what are you like!

Sorry, cant wave it only swing it lol :D

I was just pointing out that I am making money just the same as everyone else who does SEO and I'm doing it on my pricing structure.

[sirearl]

I got 2 garden sheds and both got leaky roofs.:|

I would rather work down a Siberian coal mine that do SEO for the rest of me life.:eek:

Earl

[andymayhem]

Whats sooo bad about SEO? its challenging, rewarding, always changing.

[sirearl]

Whats sooo bad about SEO? its challenging, rewarding, always changing.

Boredom personified.URGH :eek:

Sitting at a bleeding computer no life for a human being.:D

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

Boredom personified.URGH :eek:

Sitting at a bleeding computer no life for a human being.:D

Earl

Have you ever heard of counterstrike. great online game to get ridof frustration

[SFD]

Isn't SEO really, really repetative?

Aren't you just doing the same thing for each website over and over again but in different volumes?

[Ali-v-8]

Isn't SEO really, really repetative?

Aren't you just doing the same thing for each website over and over again but in different volumes?

Are you kidding.
Repeating something is a no no.
Work always changes.
The net is always changing.

[sirearl]

Have you ever heard of counterstrike. great online game to get ridof frustration

I have a digital telly built in.

I have watched so many cookery programs .

I could give Jamie Oliver a run for his money.:rolleyes::p

Earl

[IT Training UK]

The amount you should pay directly relates to how much time should be realistically spent on optimising your site. If you are looking to dominate a competitive keyword such as "credit cards" for example, expect to pay thousands of pounds per month for a few years until it might pay off.

[Ali-v-8]

The amount you should pay directly relates to how much time should be realistically spent on optimising your site. If you are looking to dominate a competitive keyword such as "credit cards" for example, expect to pay thousands of pounds per month for a few years until it might pay off.

For sure.

I always Give myself 18months for any finance industry.

credit cards minimum £30,000 but not till i have looked into a website.

[OldWelshGuy]

The amount you should pay directly relates to how much time should be realistically spent on optimising your site. If you are looking to dominate a competitive keyword such as "credit cards" for example, expect to pay thousands of pounds per month for a few years until it might pay off.

i wouldn't take on a credit card site, it would clash with my own :D

[Ali-v-8]

Taking into consideration when pricing.

Key terms
target market
website type
age of website
page layout
Content
add ons
links
redesign (rare but necessary if high bounce rate)

Then i price

[OldWelshGuy]

this is it isn't it. How much for SEo/ is a piece of string question.

how much for a horse?
how much for a car?
how much for a mountain bike?
how much for a holiday?

[Ali-v-8]

this is it isn't it. How much for SEo/ is a piece of string question.

how much for a horse?
how much for a car?
how much for a mountain bike?
how much for a holiday?

I think most of the good SEO's can agree that there is NO fixed price.

[TomUK]

I love SEO threads, it's funny how they always try to exaggarate how complex SEO is or just try and confuse things when it comes to SEO.

The truth is SEO is the most simple thing in the world, most of these SEO guys sit around on forums all day doing nothing.

It's simple, optimise your pages for targetted keywords, and then build links. Anything else is menial.

An SEO 'consultant' will make out like it's the most specific science in the world so they can charge you £75 an hour for sitting at a computer doing a basic job.

Expect this to change within the next 5 years as SEO will become less of a standalone skillest and more of an add-on, i.e. web developers will start incorporating it.

[OldWelshGuy]

yep it is the easiest thing in the world to do. Just optimise your pages for keywords and get links. . Just like bricklaying really. get bricks, get cement slap them together and you have a house.

No-one has said it is rocket science, but it isn't what you say either. you are right about SEo changing, it has moved away from the old form of web positioning, and onto web marketing.

Google yahoo and MS have applied for rafts of patents that relate to search, and there is no doubt that these will hit the algorithms in time.

Simple things like latent Semantic Indexing, meaning that in fact you don't HAVE TO 'target your pages for keywords', you have to target your pages and site to themes and topics using semantically related keywords (natural language), will cut out the ;made for google' type highly focused pages, and reward more comprehensive sites/pages.

I agree that it isn't as hard as some say, but most SEO's I know will all tell you that it i simple, and people can do 80-90% of it themselves, the fact is we can do 80-905 of MOST things in life ourselves, it just takes longer.

You can defend yourself in a court of law, because after all it is simple. stand up, tell the truth, and as long as you are innocent you get found innocent!

The truth about SEo is somewhere between 'optimise a page and get links' and 'it is an exact science, it is full of dark arts where the algorithm wooty tootie needs tweaking on a regular basis using Hilltop algorithm on one hand, and the H.I.T.S. on another. Combine this with the impending introduction and /or increasing reliance on things like Latent Semantic Indexing, and Block level Link Analysis, and you can see that my aunties cat is called Cedric!'

[ADW]

I agree it's simple for the basic stuff but when you're in a competititve market, that is when a decent SEOer will demonstrate how hard it can also be. I guess your view can be altered on what realistic aspirations you have for your site.

[Ali-v-8]

I love SEO threads, it's funny how they always try to exaggarate how complex SEO is or just try and confuse things when it comes to SEO.

The truth is SEO is the most simple thing in the world, most of these SEO guys sit around on forums all day doing nothing.

It's simple, optimise your pages for targetted keywords, and then build links. Anything else is menial.

An SEO 'consultant' will make out like it's the most specific science in the world so they can charge you £75 an hour for sitting at a computer doing a basic job.

Expect this to change within the next 5 years as SEO will become less of a standalone skillest and more of an add-on, i.e. web developers will start incorporating it.

I dont mind being slated by someone who knows the business, or has a website on page one of Google.
So please show me your website and show me YOUR success.
SEO is a practice (more you do the more you learn).
What works for one website wont have the same results as others.
The change of business (everyone using the net) will effect SEO in the future.
Then basic SEO will be futile, necessary but futile.

By the way only a bad SEO would try to pull he wool over a clients eyes. I prefer my client to use our firm with EYES WIDE OPEN.

[Latitude-Express]

How much should SEO cost is a question which can never have an answer. The price of a service is relative to the work involved and the deliverables of the service in question. £500 is expensive if somebody is doing little work or providing services which will gprovide little value (search engine submissions, meta data optimisation), but if they are providing a full managed consultative service, then it is probably a good deal.

More important than questioning the cost is questioning the value and output associated with the cost. Make sure whoever is the provider is outlining exactly what you get for your money and the results you expect. If you are the provider make sure you can demonstrate the outputs to your clients and prospects.

There are many people out there offering cut price SEO services. A lot are preying on those people with a lack of knowledge around SEO and arent actually delivering anything of tangible benefit for their fees. Shop around and make sure you are working with a company who know what they are talking about and can meet you own business needs.

Final point: If someone tells you they can guarantee you SEO results run! Dont walk, run! As fast as you can in the opposite direction! Nobody can guarantee you SEO results and nobody has a "special" relationship with Google!

[Ali-v-8]

How much should SEO cost is a question which can never have an answer. The price of a service is relative to the work involved and the deliverables of the service in question. £500 is expensive if somebody is doing little work or providing services which will gprovide little value (search engine submissions, meta data optimisation), but if they are providing a full managed consultative service, then it is probably a good deal.

More important than questioning the cost is questioning the value and output associated with the cost. Make sure whoever is the provider is outlining exactly what you get for your money and the results you expect. If you are the provider make sure you can demonstrate the outputs to your clients and prospects.

There are many people out there offering cut price SEO services. A lot are preying on those people with a lack of knowledge around SEO and arent actually delivering anything of tangible benefit for their fees. Shop around and make sure you are working with a company who know what they are talking about and can meet you own business needs.

Final point: If someone tells you they can guarantee you SEO results run! Dont walk, run! As fast as you can in the opposite direction! Nobody can guarantee you SEO results and nobody has a "special" relationship with Google!

I think we need to start a thread where we name and shame Dodgy SEO companies. Stating the reasons clearly.

[Tin]

Whilst I share your sentiments, UKBF is not the place for naming and shaming. A better way would be to try to educate people, through these forums, how to tell whether an SEO company is up to the job or not.

Ray

[Ali-v-8]

Whilst I share your sentiments, UKBF is not the place for naming and shaming. A better way would be to try to educate people, through these forums, how to tell whether an SEO company is up to the job or not.

Ray

yeah I suppose, I just get frustrated when i come across victims of bad companies.
The worst one are those who contact client who have great results and plant seeds of doubt in there heads.
Many clients just want results and cheapest always looks the best.
I cant remember the amount of times I have negotiated a deal andsome one has undercut me by £500-£1000. Its even more annoying when that person comes back to you 6 month later asking for help.
Problem is usually they have created more work for us to repair.

This is why I originally started this thread so that people were aware its not Just a case of buying a can of coke from a shop.
seo cost (like OWG said) is like the piece of string question?

It depends on what is need to be done with the string.

Seo's that offer a fixed price cannot be doing it correctly.

[OldWelshGuy]

Fixed pricing 'can' work, but cost is relative to volume of work, which again isrelative to the impact on the search engines. As long as people understand that, then all is well.

[Ali-v-8]

Whilst I share your sentiments, UKBF is not the place for naming and shaming. A better way would be to try to educate people, through these forums, how to tell whether an SEO company is up to the job or not.

Ray

i think its time i became a full member

[QVA - Emma]

I am going to have to disagree with your quote of

"Seo's that offer a fixed price cannot be doing it correctly."

I offer a fixed price, a very low one on our wesbite for SEO.

BUT

on review of an enquiry it is determined if and what the client actually needs and a quote is worked out from there.

My reasoning for this is my target is small businesses, mainly those who already have a website but, usually, in some way have been stitched up by another company in that they have built them a website then just left it to wilt away into oblivion we fondly call Google. Which is the main reason I find myself catapulted into the Internet Marketing industry.

Based on my experience and knowledge I know my limitations when it comes to SEO and KNOW that I still have a lot to learn, I have turned work away previously because of this - why would I want to damage someones online reputation and business just to make a few quid? It's a pointless exercise. This trend cannot continue and I have considered partnering with an SEO company to pass on referrals to who can offer a more expensive service with a higher ROI until such time I am comforatble with my own abilities.

For this reason I don't think your statement is a "fair" one, particularly when companies are starting out (and yes there are some of us with ethics and morals out there!) who use a set price and a certain structure to establish ourselves. For the amount of hours I actually put in I probably should charge 3 times as much - and before anyone does a search etc - yes I know there are issues with some of the websites which are being worked on!!:p

[Ali-v-8]

I am going to have to disagree with your quote of

"Seo's that offer a fixed price cannot be doing it correctly."

I offer a fixed price, a very low one on our wesbite for SEO.

BUT

on review of an enquiry it is determined if and what the client actually needs and a quote is worked out from there.

My reasoning for this is my target is small businesses, mainly those who already have a website but, usually, in some way have been stitched up by another company in that they have built them a website then just left it to wilt away into oblivion we fondly call Google. Which is the main reason I find myself catapulted into the Internet Marketing industry.

Based on my experience and knowledge I know my limitations when it comes to SEO and KNOW that I still have a lot to learn, I have turned work away previously because of this - why would I want to damage someones online reputation and business just to make a few quid? It's a pointless exercise. This trend cannot continue and I have considered partnering with an SEO company to pass on referrals to who can offer a more expensive service with a higher ROI until such time I am comforatble with my own abilities.

For this reason I don't think your statement is a "fair" one, particularly when companies are starting out (and yes there are some of us with ethics and morals out there!) who use a set price and a certain structure to establish ourselves. For the amount of hours I actually put in I probably should charge 3 times as much - and before anyone does a search etc - yes I know there are issues with some of the websites which are being worked on!!:p


You haven't..

You clearly state its FROM £39.00 a month. (£500 is still cheap)

This is not what I mean.
The annoying ones say seo £99.

[Ann@Anicca]

Nobody has actually answered the question?

Below is my experience of what many agencies and freelancers charge; and also what our agency charges to carry out an SEO project for an existing site.


What's involved in an SEO project - working with an existing website
1) Diagnosis and understanding the current status of the website and if there are any specific problems. This should include a technical review of the site and understanding of the competitive environment.
2) Keyphrase research and optimisation plan (often using PPC data to determine the phrases that result in enquiries and sales, rather than just focussing on phrases that drive traffic)
3) Creation of on-page optimised content (including new text, tags, links etc)
4) Ongoing development of links and improving the credibility of your site
5) Management, reporting and ongoing work

This process and background information on SEO can be found among the articles in our online marketing library.

Typical services and charges
1) & 2) auditing and research
This is the area where you can get charged anything from a few pounds to £5k upwards for the initial audit and advice. The pounds tend to increase rapidly if you are a brand name or if you use a large agency; even though you may be getting the same work as a smaller B2B business down the road!

We typically combine the first part of the project into one - technical audit, current performance compared with competitors, keyphrase research, gap analysis and optimisation plan.

For most companies this is ~3 days work, for which we will charge £1500-£2000 work.

3) Content creation
Most SEO copywriters can do the research and create 3-5 SEO pages in a day, so depending on their day rate you will pay anything from £5 (Indian rates) to £300+ per page. However, most agencies will charge between £200-£400 per page. Whereas, freelancers will charge £75 - £500 per day, so you could be paying £30-£100 per page - although it is likely you will need to pay more than £125/day to get anyone any good!

For the record our page rates starts at £150/page (and for most projects there is 10-20 pages), over this the page rate drops according to volume.

4) Link building
Most companies can do the link building themselves; however many companies offer this at a day rate, or per link, or number of directory listings. You need to watch out for companies offering to do this in bulk and also submission or link building using software - as these can do you more harm than good!
You should be budgeting for 1-4 days per month to do link building activities properly, however this will incorporate your social marketing and other forms of online networking!

5) Ongoing management and reporting
This is where you often get a lot of hidden and extra charges; so make sure you know what you are paying for. You need to have an idea of your agency or freelancers day rate and how much time will be allocated per month. Ask yourself lots of questions and get the proposed activities included in a written contract, with measurable outputs and targets.

What are you getting for your monthly fee?


Reporting should not take much more than half a day (depending on the complexity of your business).
Will you get extra pages written every month?
Is link building included?
How many meetings can you expect?
How much support and training will you receive?

Monthly charges can vary from a few hundred pounds to many thousands. Bigger agencies will often use this to filter out the work they want to take on, for example charging a minimum of £10k per month.

Apologises in advance!
I am sure other readers/suppliers will have strong opinions about the information above, but I hope it will give readers a guide to the range of charges in SEO land! I expect I have missed out some details and others will turn round and say that they can do everything for a low fixed fee.

However, the amount you pay really depends on the volume of work you have done and the amount that person charges per day. If they are in demand and good at what they do they will be commanding day rates in excess of £500/day!

regards
Ann Stanley

[barginboyrob]

What do you mean by per page...as in changing the meta data etc? That is £300?


why don't people look on other sites, there are many other cheaper websites out there

[Ali-v-8]

Nobody has actually answered the question?

Below is my experience of what many agencies and freelancers charge; and also what our agency charges to carry out an SEO project for an existing site.

regards
Ann Stanley

so if I asked you to get me to page one of Google for the word loans, you would charge £182,500 (@£500 a day)

Any just so you know "we did answer the question"
In case you missed it the answer was provided by the right honourable oldwelshguy "A PIECE OF STRING"

I think everyone agrees there is no fixed price. Too many factors need to be taken into consideration. There is also levels of performance that differs.
Some people get you to page one.
Others get you conventions.
Some do both.

I feel like a character out of "the hitchhickers guide to seo"

[andymayhem]

This is a great thread.

Ann you didn't say how much you charge for linkbuilding...

It looks like from what all you guys are saying is that £1000pm is about the lowest you will go to for a single project. I am guessing that the 1st month is the really heavy month, changing everything and making sure its all targeted at the right phrases so the following months are just tweaking and link building right?

[Ann@Anicca]

so if I asked you to get me to page one of Google for the word loans, you would charge £182,500 (@£500 a day)


I would be honest and say that I would not be able to achieve that for you!
However just to let you know most of our projects are £1500-£4000, not £182,500!
cheers Ann

[sirearl]

Nobody has actually answered the question?

Below is my experience of what many agencies and freelancers charge; and also what our agency charges to carry out an SEO project for an existing site.


What's involved in an SEO project - working with an existing website
1) Diagnosis and understanding the current status of the website and if there are any specific problems. This should include a technical review of the site and understanding of the competitive environment.
2) Keyphrase research and optimisation plan (often using PPC data to determine the phrases that result in enquiries and sales, rather than just focussing on phrases that drive traffic)
3) Creation of on-page optimised content (including new text, tags, links etc)
4) Ongoing development of links and improving the credibility of your site
5) Management, reporting and ongoing work

This process and background information on SEO can be found among the articles in our online marketing library.

Typical services and charges
1) & 2) auditing and research
This is the area where you can get charged anything from a few pounds to £5k upwards for the initial audit and advice. The pounds tend to increase rapidly if you are a brand name or if you use a large agency; even though you may be getting the same work as a smaller B2B business down the road!

We typically combine the first part of the project into one - technical audit, current performance compared with competitors, keyphrase research, gap analysis and optimisation plan.

For most companies this is ~3 days work, for which we will charge £1500-£2000 work.

3) Content creation
Most SEO copywriters can do the research and create 3-5 SEO pages in a day, so depending on their day rate you will pay anything from £5 (Indian rates) to £300+ per page. However, most agencies will charge between £200-£400 per page. Whereas, freelancers will charge £75 - £500 per day, so you could be paying £30-£100 per page - although it is likely you will need to pay more than £125/day to get anyone any good!

For the record our page rates starts at £150/page (and for most projects there is 10-20 pages), over this the page rate drops according to volume.

4) Link building
Most companies can do the link building themselves; however many companies offer this at a day rate, or per link, or number of directory listings. You need to watch out for companies offering to do this in bulk and also submission or link building using software - as these can do you more harm than good!
You should be budgeting for 1-4 days per month to do link building activities properly, however this will incorporate your social marketing and other forms of online networking!

5) Ongoing management and reporting
This is where you often get a lot of hidden and extra charges; so make sure you know what you are paying for. You need to have an idea of your agency or freelancers day rate and how much time will be allocated per month. Ask yourself lots of questions and get the proposed activities included in a written contract, with measurable outputs and targets.

What are you getting for your monthly fee?


Reporting should not take much more than half a day (depending on the complexity of your business).
Will you get extra pages written every month?
Is link building included?
How many meetings can you expect?
How much support and training will you receive?

Monthly charges can vary from a few hundred pounds to many thousands. Bigger agencies will often use this to filter out the work they want to take on, for example charging a minimum of £10k per month.

Apologises in advance!
I am sure other readers/suppliers will have strong opinions about the information above, but I hope it will give readers a guide to the range of charges in SEO land! I expect I have missed out some details and others will turn round and say that they can do everything for a low fixed fee.

However, the amount you pay really depends on the volume of work you have done and the amount that person charges per day. If they are in demand and good at what they do they will be commanding day rates in excess of £500/day!

regards
Ann Stanley

Hi Ann was just wondering why an SEO company would use so many instances of the word "property" in a title.?:|

Worldwide Property : UK Property Investment, Buy Off Plan, Buy-to-Let Properties, Overseas Property, Caribbean Property, Dubai Property

[Ann@Anicca]

Hi Ann was just wondering why an SEO company would use so many instances of the word "property" in a title.?

I agree - this property site (www.overseas-homes-direct.com (http://www.overseas-homes-direct.com)) is now 3 years old, no longer active and is only linked on our portfolio page (http://www.anicca-solutions.com/clients.htm) as a showcase for the web technology; although it still has some useful information for international property buyers (if there are any out there) - with over 300 pages of optimised content about buying property in Spain, France, Dubai, US and Bulgaria.

Unfortunately, we could not justify doing an update, I am afraid.
cheers Ann
PS thanks for having a look anyway!

[Ann@Anicca]

Generally optimising a page, includes creating unique content that has a value to the user as well as being optimised, it cant be just regurgitated text full of keyphrases. Generally there will be 250-500 words optimised for 1 or 2 keyphrases.
As well as the main body copy it would also have optimised tags (generally titles, description and alt tags), headers, url and internal links.

If you relate it to a copy writer, a journalist or PR who charge on a per word rate you can get another perspective on the likely costs, due to the time taken to research and write the copy.
cheers Ann

[Ann@Anicca]

Yes, this is about right, although where possible we try and spread projects out or combine a SEO project with PPC work, so that the whole strategy is fully integrated.

The other thing that most people don't realise is that there are loads of grants around to help companies do this sort of work, particularly in the Midlands where we are based.

We often help companies get up to 50% funding for projects. This can be simply a couple of days strategic advise to the directors to put an online marketing plan together (funded through a mentor/training grant), or 50% towards an integrated web build and online marketing programme (worth up to 50% of a £10k project).
Contact me directly if you want any more information on this?
regards Ann

[sirearl]

Yes, this is about right, although where possible we try and spread projects out or combine a SEO project with PPC work, so that the whole strategy is fully integrated.

The other thing that most people don't realise is that there are loads of grants around to help companies do this sort of work, particularly in the Midlands where we are based.

We often help companies get up to 50% funding for projects. This can be simply a couple of days strategic advise to the directors to put an online marketing plan together (funded through a mentor/training grant), or 50% towards an integrated web build and online marketing programme (worth up to 50% of a £10k project).
Contact me directly if you want any more information on this?
regards Ann

Very interesting Ann.

I would be very interested to see some of the results your company has achieved.Could not find any on your website

Earl

[OldWelshGuy]

Put the bloody bone down earl :D

[sirearl]

Put the bloody bone down earl :D

Sod off Taffy ain't ya got no Leeks to pick or sheep to shear.?:p

Earl

[matt.chatterley]

i would also be interested to hear how much people are charging for SEO.

i had a salesman trying to flog me seo for £500 a month , is that alot ?

what are people generally charging ?

It depends totally on what needs doing - as with any bespoke project.

We tend to work with the customer (this applies to a lot of bespoke jobs, not just SEO/et al) to build up a works list which is weighted by recommendation/requirement, and split down into chunks - they can then (as appropriate) select the work they want to do, with a reasonable idea of the likely benefits.

We generally do this sort of thing on a T&M basis - it's simplest for us to account for (and simple helps keep costs down).

[Ali-v-8]

I would be honest and say that I would not be able to achieve that for you!
However just to let you know most of our projects are £1500-£4000, not £182,500!
cheers Ann

So as has previously been stated no fixed price can be given.

[Ali-v-8]

Sod off Taffy ain't ya got no Leeks to pick or sheep to shear.?:p

Earl

Now Now boys, No need to fight over a girl.

By the way Sirearl.

Experimented with 3 websites bye removin the site map
one has gone up alot
one is moved up just a page
one has yet to be cached

I think you are onto something.

I can only assume it because Google has to read the content instead of what you tell him.

[sirearl]

Now Now boys, No need to fight over a girl.

By the way Sirearl.

Experimented with 3 websites bye removin the site map
one has gone up alot
one is moved up just a page
one has yet to be cached

I think you are onto something.

I can only assume it because Google has to read the content instead of what you tell him.

How could you ever doubt me.?:|:rolleyes::)

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

How could you ever doubt me.?:|:rolleyes::)

Earl

I'll keep you posted

[Ali-v-8]

I have just had the worst ever conversation.
After explaining the effectiveness of seo for a clients website and explaining that he would save thousands and thousands a year by just adding a map listing for free he said and i quote " that is too expensive can you not do it cheaper".
I replied "but its free".
He responds " I know all about SEO, my mate works for google and your too expensive. Do it for a grand and i'll take it"

stupid stupid stupid.

I took the grand. LOL :redface:

[andymayhem]

Does that include your consultancy fee? :D

[QVA - Emma]

I have just had the worst ever conversation.
After explaining the effectiveness of seo for a clients website and explaining that he would save thousands and thousands a year by just adding a map listing for free he said and i quote " that is too expensive can you not do it cheaper".
I replied "but its free".
He responds " I know all about SEO, my mate works for google and your too expensive. Do it for a grand and i'll take it"

stupid stupid stupid.

I took the grand. LOL :redface:

Well that made my day TYVM. (I think the Client must have thought you were saying "it's THREE!") :D:D

[Ali-v-8]

Does that include your consultancy fee? :D

No consultancy fee's taken.
Free advice.
Free consultation.
Free health check.

I charge only for work carried out.

[Ali-v-8]

Well that made my day TYVM. (I think the Client must have thought you were saying "it's THREE!") :D:D

That's my good deed of the day done. :D

[OldWelshGuy]

That's my good deed of the day done. :D

Was it a 'free' deed? best not tell her or she won't feel 2 grand :p

[QVA - Emma]

Was it a 'free' deed? best not tell her or she won't feel 2 grand :p

Oh dear - don't give up the day job!!! :p

[Ali-v-8]

Oh dear - don't give up the day job!!! :p

Yes, dont give up your day job.

Who else will we have insane and witty comments on the threads:|

Besides mr earl.

By the way only took £200 for the listing.
Guy is happy as he is now page one top of the list.
Guy has just saved £800 a month (according to him)

think i should have took the grand;)

[sirearl]

Oh dear - don't give up the day job!!! :p

You don't seriously think old Taffy slap head has a job.?:eek:

The sheep are more of a hobby.:p

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

You don't seriously think old Taffy slap head has a job.?:eek:

The sheep are more of a hobby.:p

Earl

You can always rely on you straight to the point WIT.
Cruel Harsh and Demoralising.
You remind me of my ex wife :D

[OldWelshGuy]

You don't seriously think old Taffy slap head has a job.?:eek:

The sheep are more of a hobby.:p

Earl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw

take it back old man, get back to selling chinese 1/12 scale jetski's (or whatever the combination is these days you are sel ling ) :D

[sirearl]

You can always rely on you straight to the point WIT.
Cruel Harsh and Demoralising.
You remind me of my ex wife :D

Oh don't worry about the Welsh Wizard he can give as good as he gets and some.:rolleyes:

The shiny bounced fraud calls himself Old Welsh Guy.

He's 20 years younger than me.:eek:

Earl

[sirearl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw

take it back old man, get back to selling chinese 1/12 scale jetski's (or whatever the combination is these days you are sel ling ) :D

Great video.:)

Are you the one with the wet nose.?:|

Earl

[OldWelshGuy]

Great video.:)

Are you the one with the wet nose.?:|

Earl


No I am the smiling bald one standing behind her :rolleyes:

[Ali-v-8]

Great video.:)

Are you the one with the wet nose.?:|

Earl

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah hahaa ouch think i cracked a rib

[sirearl]

No I am the smiling bald one standing behind her :rolleyes:

Oh I did wonder if you might be the shaggy one with all the clingons.?:rolleyes::p

Earl

[Kerri at Lantern]

Wow! I didn't realise there was such variation in the pricing. My brother offers this service as a freelancer and he is way cheaper than the figures quoted because he feels he has to compete with all the other cheap companies on the Internet. I keep telling him he's underselling himself!

Personally I think SEO cannot and should not be done in isolation, but as part of an overall PR & Marketing strategy for best results. I've teamed up with my brother so that when I create a PR strategy, SEO can be part of that and the overall effect of many hits across a range of media should create the results clients are looking for.

[sunny09]

Google adward and yahoo adword is advertise charged to improve the rank. It is not what the SEO does.
I have some suggestions:
1. Choose some suitable keywords
2. Use some valueable external links.
3. Own a good website framework.
4. Write something like an editor, not only satisfy the requirment of search engine, but also the reading for customesr.

[Ali-v-8]

Wow! I didn't realise there was such variation in the pricing. My brother offers this service as a freelancer and he is way cheaper than the figures quoted because he feels he has to compete with all the other cheap companies on the Internet. I keep telling him he's underselling himself!

Personally I think SEO cannot and should not be done in isolation, but as part of an overall PR & Marketing strategy for best results. I've teamed up with my brother so that when I create a PR strategy, SEO can be part of that and the overall effect of many hits across a range of media should create the results clients are looking for.

When competing for business you should not look at other companies as you then undervalue your work.
Everyone is guilty of under quoting. I have done it when I first got into this business. The fact of the matter is that some companies will promise the earth and charge only 99p for results (I know I know *****y). Then when we as the next company contacted explain what we have to do and the cost involved they always tell me what the other company quoted.

Now me personally don't care for clients who compare costs.
I prefer clients who compare competence, reputation and results. Above all an seo company should be on page one of Google regardless.

[sirearl]

Now me personally don't care for clients who compare costs.
I prefer clients who compare competence, reputation and results. Above all an seo company should be on page one of Google regardless.

You do mean the SEO company should get there clients site on page 1.?

Not the SEO company.:eek:

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

You do mean the SEO company should get there clients site on page 1.?

Not the SEO company.:eek:

Earl

I meant an seo company who is competent will have their website on page one or two for competitive phrases. Proof in the pudding so to speak.

I did mean when choosing an SEO company.:)

[sirearl]

I meant an seo company who is competent will have their website on page one or two for competitive phrases. Proof in the pudding so to speak.

I did mean when choosing an SEO company.:)

Proof of the pudding is what they do for there clients.

The best SEO's would certainly not want to be on page 1 for SEO terms.

Just think of all the dross you would have to wade through to find your prince.:D

The only companies that go for page 1 are large organizations ,that will sell there granny for a buck.:rolleyes:

References from clients and word of mouth is the way to go to find a good SEO.

Earl

[Ali-v-8]

Proof of the pudding is what they do for there clients.

The best SEO's would certainly not want to be on page 1 for SEO terms.

Just think of all the dross you would have to wade through to find your prince.:D

The only companies that go for page 1 are large organizations ,that will sell there granny for a buck.:rolleyes:

References from clients and word of mouth is the way to go to find a good SEO.

Earl

I'll not sell my granny for a buck.:mad:

I wont take less than 5 bucks and a dime.:D

Remember i mentioned my favourite phrase is a 3 word one.
Nearly (and I mean nearly) every visitor coming to my site for that phrase converts to business.
It doesnt mention seo. ;)

And yes I do get a lot of referral

[TomUK]

I don't get SirEarl, he thinks becuase a business his work gets a business to the top of google and the business subsequently makes alot of monye, he should get a cut?

I mean come on, thats ludicrous, thats like the engineers who work on lewis hamiltons car demanding a 20% cut of his earnings, or the guy who crafted tiger woods golf clubs demanding parts of his earnings, becuase "without them he wouldnt be able to play".

Maybe if you where the only guy in the world who could do it, sure, but the fact theres an SEO on every corner these days, I don't get sirearls "know your worth SEOs", and implying that they should take a cut of how much the business earns.

Or even worse, he makes out like theres nothing more to an online business then SEO, its stupid.

[Ali-v-8]

I don't get SirEarl, he thinks becuase a business his work gets a business to the top of google and the business subsequently makes alot of monye, he should get a cut?

I mean come on, thats ludicrous, thats like the engineers who work on lewis hamiltons car demanding a 20% cut of his earnings, or the guy who crafted tiger woods golf clubs demanding parts of his earnings, becuase "without them he wouldnt be able to play".

Maybe if you where the only guy in the world who could do it, sure, but the fact theres an SEO on every corner these days, I don't get sirearls "know your worth SEOs", and implying that they should take a cut of how much the business earns.

Or even worse, he makes out like theres nothing more to an online business then SEO, its stupid.

Tom, i think you miss understood him.

Seo can make or break a business.
And profit share or bonuses are now common.
If you had a business that doe 10k a year and you take on an seo who then increases your business to 100k a year, you really want to keep that guy happy. only the worst kind of business man wouldn't.
I have had a spate of non payers after results clearly show mass improvement. but i have the perfect solution.
Removing work quickly reminds them what they paid for.

[reggiemental]

or the guy who crafted tiger woods golf clubs demanding parts of his earnings, becuase "without them he wouldnt be able to play".

I think you'll find the guy who carries his bag, advises on shot selection, calms him down after a mistake, keeps him focussed etc., does very nicely when it comes to earnings. There's a lot more to the game than just hitting the ball. Same with SEO.

[TomUK]

You can't compare a caddie to an SEO...

Caddies are usually ex pro's, who know golf inside out...

Are SEO's ex businessman who know business inside out? No... they have expertise in one field...

The fact is theres thousands upon thousands of top SEO guys out there, you don't have to give away 10% of your profits to get good rankings... It's ludicrous, it implies there's nothing more to online businesses then SEO

[andymayhem]

Tom, can you define what you think SEO is? SEO to me and many of us isn't just about SERPs. It's about working out how best to sell the product the client is offering with the right keywords, the right design and many other things.

Note. People pay ebay 10% to sell their items.

[KidsBeeHappy]

The fact is theres thousands upon thousands of top SEO guys out there, you don't have to give away 10% of your profits to get good rankings... It's ludicrous, it implies there's nothing more to online businesses then SEO

Wrong, there are thousands upon thousands of SEO guys out there that THINK they're top. There are probably only a couple of hundred nationwide that truely know their business. And if they're prepared to put their money where their SEO skills are then that's a good way to sort the wheat from the chaff.

[sirearl]

Wrong, there are thousands upon thousands of SEO guys out there that THINK they're top. There are probably only a couple of hundred nationwide that truely know their business.

make that about 40 world wide.:rolleyes::)

Earl

[TomUK]

Theres 40 worldwide, and 20 of them are on this forum :) right?

[KidsBeeHappy]

make that about 40 world wide.:rolleyes::)

Earl

Send us the list then ;)

[Ali-v-8]

make that about 40 world wide.:rolleyes::)

Earl

Thank you earl.:redface:

Didnt realise you knew my worth lol :D :D

[Ali-v-8]

Send us the list then ;)

Ali
Ali
Ali
Ali
Ali
ALi
ALLLLLLIIIIIII

oh earl , welshy boy

ALI
ALI
ALi
ha ha ha :D :D :D :D :D :D

[The Dreaded Lurgy]

The fact is theres thousands upon thousands of top SEO guys out there, you don't have to give away 10% of your profits to get good rankings... It's ludicrous, it implies there's nothing more to online businesses then SEO


There are lots of people who all charge in the way they think works best, earls profit share scheme means he will only make money if you make money this is an obvious motivation to go above and beyond the standard service and help you make as much profit as possible, the benefit is you will be both united and driven towards a common goal - cash.

The downsides are if you are amazingly successful he will present you with a big bill. Also if either of you fail you both fail nobody gets paid (and you would have to work very closely with each other so it could be quite intense).

You have not considered his proposition from his side, he could put yo at No.1 for every money phrase known to man and if you managed the business badly and went bankrupt all his work would earn him zero, its not about does he deserve 10% its just about different ways of structuring payments to manage different risks. Look past the conceit and ego, you might see a sensible option.

[Ali-v-8]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/topseos/competitionwinners/prweb1883254.htm

This is my claim to being one of the best SEO companies in the WORLD. (5th for 2008)

[sirearl]

Theres 40 worldwide, and 20 of them are on this forum :) right?

No but 39 of them were taught by me.:|:rolleyes::p

Earl

[andymayhem]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/topseos/competitionwinners/prweb1883254.htm

This is my claim to being one of the best SEO companies in the WORLD. (5th for 2008)

Cost of entry $5000! How many sign up? 10?

[Ali-v-8]

Cost of entry $5000! How many sign up? 10?

got to be in it to win it

[andymayhem]

:D true, and I suppose you need to be good to be able to spare that kinda of cash on a game you might not win.

[Ali-v-8]

Just so that you know we weren't the only uk company to enter, although we were the only company in the top ten

seo-consult
just search
high positiom
smart traffic
bullseye media
big mouth media
greenlight
bluechilli
net secrets
advansys limited
GSINC ltd
Ikroh

Draw your own conclusion!!!!

[OldWelshGuy]

bruce is one of the biggest spammers in the world, and he won :D

[Ali-v-8]

bruce is one of the biggest spammers in the world, and he won :D

Probably true but his clients said he's kept hem happy.

[greenwood-IT]

Hiya,

I've always been confused by how the first page on Google only shows 10 results and I get 20 companies a month guaranteeing to get me onto the first page for a fee!

If I could afford it, I'd employ all of them at the same time and watch the ensuing arguments! :p

Chat soon.

[sirearl]

There are lots of people who all charge in the way they think works best, earls profit share scheme means he will only make money if you make money this is an obvious motivation to go above and beyond the standard service and help you make as much profit as possible, the benefit is you will be both united and driven towards a common goal - cash.

The downsides are if you are amazingly successful he will present you with a big bill. Also if either of you fail you both fail nobody gets paid (and you would have to work very closely with each other so it could be quite intense).

You have not considered his proposition from his side, he could put yo at No.1 for every money phrase known to man and if you managed the business badly and went bankrupt all his work would earn him zero, its not about does he deserve 10% its just about different ways of structuring payments to manage different risks. Look past the conceit and ego, you might see a sensible option.

Damn I thought I had done a good job of disguising me conceit and ego.:|:)

I don't go into business with people who don't know what there doing in general,and if they are not fully up to speed I can soon put the right.:rolleyes:

My model works on complete trust,and so far no one has let me down and everyone is happy paying me ,in fact the more I get paid the more they like it.:D

Whats this word "fail".?:|

Lingscars No3 for "car leasing" only 2 more scalps to take.:D

So where's the conceit.?:):p


Earl

[The Dreaded Lurgy]

The conceit may lie in the rebuttal of a compliment due to it being percieved as insufficiant, but I suppose thats more hubris.

[KidsBeeHappy]

Just so that you know we weren't the only uk company to enter, although we were the only company in the top ten

seo-consult
just search
high positiom
smart traffic
bullseye media
big mouth media
greenlight
bluechilli
net secrets
advansys limited
GSINC ltd
Ikroh

Draw your own conclusion!!!!

Smart-traffic at no.4! What is this supposed to be measuring, the top spammy links companies.

No offense, Ali, but I wouldn't use any league with Smart Traffic in it as an indication of your worth, even if you are top.

[sirearl]

Just so that you know we weren't the only uk company to enter, although we were the only company in the top ten

seo-consult
just search
high positiom
smart traffic
bullseye media
big mouth media
greenlight
bluechilli
net secrets
advansys limited
GSINC ltd
Ikroh

Draw your own conclusion!!!!

Blimey you gotta be a few tags short of an SEO to enter a competition where you ain't paid in hard cash.

All that free work blasphemy.:eek:

And don't tell me you do it for the advertising.

Any decent SEO has enough work for the next 100 years.:D



Earl

[akrom bopal]

Surely the competition and the keywords + how the site is already set up make a massive difference to cost.

[Ali-v-8]

Blimey you gotta be a few tags short of an SEO to enter a competition where you ain't paid in hard cash.

All that free work blasphemy.:eek:

And don't tell me you do it for the advertising.

Any decent SEO has enough work for the next 100 years.:D



Earl

come on leave boxy to insult me:D

And by the way Boxy that was a list of entrants not a list of how the performed.
non ow the companies listed got in the top 20 as far as i am aware

[KidsBeeHappy]

come on leave boxy to insult me:D

And by the way Boxy that was a list of entrants not a list of how the performed.
non ow the companies listed got in the top 20 as far as i am aware

Now Ali, you know that I have no insult to throw at you.

Smart-traffic, maybe I have a few thousand to throw at them, but that's a different story.

[Ali-v-8]

Now Ali, you know that I have no insult to throw at you.

Smart-traffic, maybe I have a few thousand to throw at them, but that's a different story.

now why would you do that for. :D
my pocket is ready and waiting for wasted money:p